The Dealer Playbook
The Dealer Playbook

Episode 495 · 7 months ago

Vasilios Lambos: Amazon Advertising For Auto Dealers


Vasilios Lambos is the Chief Marketing Officer at, an ad-tech company that helps auto dealers utilize Amazon's various advertising channels. In this episode of the Dealer Playbook, you'll learn about how Amazon advertising can help expand your paid media effectiveness and place your inventory in front of highly engaged shoppers.

What we discuss in this episode:

  • Vasilios provides context to where Amazon fits in the overall media plan today.
  • We're super familiar with paid search, paid social, and third-party cookies as the privacy concerns come to life, dealers and marketers are looking back at programmatic advertising as the way to better find a more niche audience that fits their marketing objectives for their business.
  • The Amazon Garage allows users to upload their vehicle information, make, model, and year and that does a couple of things. One, it allows the user to get a personalized shopper experience on, and second, it allows advertisers to better target users based on the make/model and year that they have sitting in their driveway.
  • Amazon garage is the second-largest repository of user-generated vehicle ownership data outside of the DMV in the United States.
  • Your media plan should have a strategy related, most importantly to the business objective that you're looking to solve.
  • Listen to the full episode featuring Vasilios Lambos for even more insights about how to step into who you really are!

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Thanks, Vasilios Lambos

If you enjoyed this conversation with Vasilios Lambos, please let them know by clicking on the links below and sending him a message.

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Get Your Google vehicle adds up and running fast with flex dealercom. The car business is rapidly changing and modern car dealers are meeting the demand. I'm Michael Cirillo and together we're going to explore what it takes to create a thriving dealership and life in the retail automotive industry. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with subject matter experts that are designed to help you grow. This is the dealer playbook. At time of recording this episode of the Dealer Playbook Podcast, I've just returned from Nada Two thousand and twenty two. Of course, when you walk around the floor, DPVGAN, you probably already know this, but you hear people tongue and Che Oh, what's the buzz word going to be? I might even be one of them. From time to time. It was a s CEO, then it was big data, then it was now, I don't know, digital retail, and of course, walking around the floor this year we heard a lot about oh well, the buzz is probably going to be Amazon advertising, and I got to think, well, maybe there's good reason for all the buzz. And so no better individual to sit down with right now. The CMO of a company called cognition digital. Vasilios Lambos, thanks so much for joining me on the dealer playbook podcast. Thank Michael. It's a pleasure. All right. So let's talk about this. We got facebook, we've got Google, we've got big now we're talking all about Amazon. I want to turn this over to you. Let's set the table here. Why? Why? Amazon? Why? As a dealer? Who maybe they're thinking really another platform? Wow many, how many platforms do we need? Why Amazon? Well, I think by you know, first off, we got to give Amazon advertising a little context and to we're Amazon fits in the overall media plan. Today we're super familiar with paid search, paid social and with, you know, the I say that cookies, third party cookies. As the privacy concerns sort of come to light, dealers and marketers are looking back at programmatic advertising the way to better find a more niche audience that fits their marketing objectives, for their business objective, and Amazon's pretty well suited to to fit the needs of marketers and dealers today because of the data, the first party data that Amazon has, because they are the largest e commerce site in the country, are in the world for that matter, and so for. Why does it matter for dealers? Well, there's this little known thing, and I you know, I think a lot of people have overlooked it, but over the past five to six years, Amazon created a shopper experience called the Amazon Garage. The Amazon Garage allows users to upload their vehicle information, make model, year, and that does a couple things. One, it allows you to get a personalized shopper experience on Amazoncom. Second, it allows advertisers like cognition to better target users based on the make, model and year that they have of the vehicle they own in their in their driveway on amazoncom. So, you know, programatic fits to categories is display Nott but what we built was a dynamic solution to meet those audiences with the right creative you know, we talked about personalization all the time. When you're going to advertise your business, you want to create the right message to the right audience. What better way to do that with First Party data that Amazon has, because they know what you're shopping for, they know where you're...

...shipping your products and they now know what vehicle you want, and so that level of personalization kind of put Amazon on the map. Amazon garage today is actually the second largest repository of user generated vehicle ownership data outside the DMV. It's actually over two hundred million vehicles are uploaded on the amason garage. So it's a it's a force to reckon with and makes sense why it's becomes a US a hot topic today. Now, tell me a little bit more about this garage, because I think people are probably using it and not even realizing they're using it. Is this the to clarify. Is this where? Say, I type in BMW X, five products and it says, Hey, we'll tell us exactly what your vehicle is so we can show you the the products that will be an exact match. You hit the nail on the head. It's that simple. And there's many you know, we speak with many dealers, even agencies today who are asked US questions around. Where is this experience? And Amazon isn't aggressively marketing the Amazon garage is hey, use this product and experience. It's not there yet. It's still early in terms of the integration to their overall shopper experience. Right however, there are many people who have uploaded their vehicle information that maybe in their Amazon garage account three years ago two years ago, kind in that early infancy of Amazon was building this experience out. Fast forward today you see large brands like Hondai and you know, I think even now it was Hondai that that created a kind of a unique partnership to push inventory from a digital retailing standpoint. Brands are buying into translating digital retailing right and integrating that more exclusively with Amazon. Now, from an advertised perspective, like all we want is the data and in allowing you, the you the user, to Upload Yourformation, it's a win win. You're going to get personalized parts and accessories recommendations, you're going to get to the product faster, you're going to get to maybe a better product that is going to be lower cost than what you're purchasing right at your local dealer, if it's if you're more of a diy and you're looking to fix your vehicle yourself. So there's tons of advantages just in general that having that data in your account. But for the advertiser, for the dealer, it's it's super beneficial that we now are not just going to spend more on marketing and not know who are seeing our at right and we can get very, very granular. And so when you the is valued Amazon in my opinions, and the ampire is toppling model audience data with life stage or other e commerce data. So what I mean by that is there over fifty plus subsidiaries companies that Amazon owns, like whole foods or twitch TV. Those purchase behaviors that occur at whole foods, right, that indicates maybe a newborn, you know fant like a mother that has having a newborn baby, or sing like baby formula. At whole foods, she might be in market to shop for a large SUV for her growing family. And you can couple those audience segments together and serve them very specific inventory. Right. So that that level grand of granularities pretty powerful when you're thinking about spending your media dollars effectively. All, Dude, all the people that shop at whole foods are sitting here going how did they know that? I want to buy a Super Bru as like do, because you were grownola. It's so true. It's kind of try to we try to articulate our value ad you know, cognitions. Amazon only right, like right, one thing. We do it really, really well and we try not to sound creepy because here you have a kind of this conflicting message in...

...the market. From a strategic perspective, everybody's saying privacy, privacy, privacy. It's becoming harder to track online engagement and you're seeing that struggle with facebook in particular in the last eighteen months. Right. You know, programmatic is sort of been. It's been. It's been around forever. Did right, probably seeing those really annoying display ads on a website. You probably clicked on them a hundred times or not, and made a purchase behavior because are purchasing decision because you saw that Ad. It's been around there since the inception of the web. Only now are we seeing that programmatic and display and Ott has becomes significantly more targeted and more effective. And so, yeah, you're you have so many. I say there's an audience for everything. You know, it's like my my line that I like to use. You know what's more annoying than advertising in general, advertising that has nothing to do with and or speaks to any thing you're interested in? My wife, we lay in bed, we're watching, you know, something on Hulu, amaz whatever, Amazon Prime, and we've noticed we're starting get to get commercials in these platforms. Maybe we're not paying for the luxury tear. I don't know. And and by the way, this is not a racial comment. I hate that I even have to say this, but when my wife and I get ads delivered to us in Spanish, dude, we don't speaks man, I don't understand what they're saying and it doesn't make me want to buy your baby fause, as beautiful as the language it, it doesn't make me want to buy your baby formula. Also, side note, no babies for baby formula. So what we're talking about here, what I think is really interesting from up and by the way, dpb gang, this is me with my marketer cap on right. I've got nothing against it, you know, don't don't get all woke on me and be like, Oh, yeah, it's Spanish people. No, I don't. I just hate irrelevant advertising more than I hate advertising, Jack, you know. And so to your point, first party data coupled with household level targeting, coupled with life milestones and and I'm sure a thousand plus more other signals. You have the ability not to be creepy and not and it's not even a privacy issue. If people really had an issue with privacy, they wouldn't input any information to begin with. Sort a couple all of that so that the end user can actually get messaging that's relevant to something going on in their life. Much more enjoyable to consume those ads than it is to get something that has absolutely nothing to do with anything. You're one hundred percent correct, and so you know, our solution right to serving more personalization, more granularity, has been sort of broken up for the dealer in a few different ways. We have a few products that meet very specific business subjective. So for variable operations, it's Vin specific ads that we deliver to these first party make model your audiences and we're dynamically serving and layering to your point those key moments and life stages based on your inventory mix. So at you know, broad stroke at this right, like we don't know your name and address as a company, right, we have these audiences that are made available to us in the DSP and our software, which is that layer above Amazon advertising, makes the decision engine to serve that ad or that vehicle... the right customer. We're doing it with fixed ops, and so if you have certain purchase or search behavior for specific parts and accessories. We can layer in, you know, service offers through the advent of a feed, we can layer in parts and accessories that the dealer is selling and even market that to users based on their person purchase history and behavior on Amazoncom. I think the most compelling right that we've that, you know, I think solution that we brought to the market with Amazon is vehicle acquisition, given that the entire market as sort of seen a lot of pressure on the new car side M and we've been able to create dynamic offers for the vehicle with a range and actual value range based on where that user lives and what vehicle they own. I think that's been we've seen the most success out of that, out of that specific product, and the reason we've seen success is because Amazon and is allowing a lot of technology to be built that we are sort of first to party on building. One of those tools has been offline attribution, and so we can match back today sales data, whether that's our row data, lead data, showroom visit data, as long as it has an email, we can match it back to Ott and display on Amazon wow. And what we're finding is that we are getting signific effigantly high match rates out of the gate. This is something that was brought to market less than three months ago, okay, and so it's definitely on the bleeding edge. We have a lot of developing case studies, a lot of complete case studies for each of these strategies. But that's the biggest advantage for dealers to take advantage of in the media space is they haven't had a concrete channel to measure success in even facebook has significantly been watered down on their offline attribution match back and we found a great solution here with no limitations on the attribution window. We can match back to ninety days, we can match it back to a hundred days if we would like. And so to create that story is really not only be able to target the right audience, but are we driving business results? Is it achieving and Ury? And we've been able to prove and say yes, not only yes, but in the three hundred to six hundred percent range and turns well, you're not ad spent, and so the data doesn't lie, it's there and a lot of the advantage, I think, and the next year is going to be a blend of media arbitrage where dealers are going to be looking for media channels just outside of the traditional Google facebook, where they're going to get a more efficient by right, more value for their money. HMM. And then second, secondly, yeah, aligning again. You know, as we see inventory recover in twenty end to two thousand and twenty two and two thousand and twenty three, how are we now ramping dollars back up in the most effective manner? You know, a lot of dealers that turned off their ad budget or reduce their ad budget. They're going to be kind of lost in the fray come time to say hey, now, how do I remain competitive? And we see that every day. I mean the dealers we talked to. We built this business on early adopters looking for that new channel and we've seen success. Now Come, you know, time for the market to recover. Those dealers are going to be way ahead of the game. When it comes to advertising on Amazoncom, is there a saturation point? And what I mean by that is I would venture to say majority of dealerships are advertising in some way, shape or form on facebook, Google. Is there a similar saturation point with Amazon? So in automotive, I would say at the tier three level, individual franchise level. There maybe some more saturation...

...on the Ott side, then there would display okay. But when I when I say that, I say with a grain of salt. So back of the Napkin math. Eighty percent of the country, if you're eighteen or older, has an Amazon account. Broad strokes where we see some limitations and your ceiling in terms of how much you could spend in the channel. We've really only seen it on the Ott side and really rural role market areas that may have sub a hundredzero people that you could target. Gotcha, and that hundred thousand, you know, person DMA or market areas of code lists, whatever it may be, you know, amounts to the ceiling of about five thousand dollars on Ott. When I look at Metro areas or areas that have between a half a million to two and a half million people, most dealers, you know, when you're looking at a balance media plan, they are way off from maxing out the channel or really spending in a channel that's quote unquote oversaturated. So we are far from that. I think we're five years out from having a conversation of Amazon or buying an Amazon in our market. programmatically is quote unquote expensive it is super, super efficient. So, you know, to give you an idea of that, you know in any average market dealers that are spending between thrive three to five thousand dollars on display, they're seeing between two to five dollar, five dollars in terms of a CPM. And that's for an audience that's first party, that's an audience. You know what vehicle they own, right, and you may also know that that person is purchased a very specific part product on Amazon and has very specific intent. To me, that's a no brainer versus the ten to fifteen dollar CPM's you see on like a facebook, a Pinterest, the tick tock, and it's, you know, shockun approach. You have no idea who click your ad right and who visited your website outside of what the Pixel is delivering. You know, in terms of the signals, rite those signals that are going to indicate in the algorithm who to serve the ad to. That doesn't occur on Amazon advertising in this use case because we are very specifically dying in which audience is seeing which ad unit right, which actual creative. I want to I want to sidebar just for a minute because there's a there's there's this thought rolling around in my mind as it pertains to Amazon and as it pertains to all of this data that we now have to leverage and the power of this advertising platform, and that sidebar thought is how important it is to play the lung game. And here's what I mean. Okay, just just entertain me from I watched this this Amazon documentary about Jeff Bezos and the space shuttle and and and what's The dudes name? Captain Kirk William Shatner, going to space in blue origin, right? Is that what it's called? The blue origin? One of the things that I thought was particularly interesting about this documentary is the fact that Jeff Bezos, as a kid, were accounts, spending a lot of time in his local library where he read every book about space, space being his first passion, his first love, but in that process he also learned that he and really enjoyed reading, and there was this long game, kind of plug about how he wanted to find a way to get to space and married two passions. The launch of Ad Amazon, which started with book selling exclusively out of his garage, which then turned into what it is today, which ultimately was the vehicle he needed to create enough wealth to create a... company to build rocket ships to put him in space. Also, though, along the way, I'm sure they got clarity that the name of the game wasn't even to get to space, it was to collect data, because data is the new natural resource. And you're talking a lot about first party data. And I want dealers to understand in this little sidebar that if you're not playing the long game, if you have an identified what your space is and what your dealership operations and advertising is the vehicle to get you toward, it's going to be really difficult to ever play the long game. But there's got to be a greater purpose than just what's in front of us today. And you said something which triggered the side Bar. Vasilios Vasile did I say? You crushed it, Dude. You don't get to talk to people with sexy names very often. You said something about the First Party data that made me think about this, and it was the mixed having a mixed, a balanced, mixed plan. And so often dealers just there, they're they're spending all their money on low funnel because they're so stuck in the today I need to sell cars. Today, I need leads to work today. So let me ask you this. Now that you've entertained me from it, I'm going to shut up. How well does this Amazon how well does the Amazon ecosystem work as part? Is it part of a mixed, balanced approach? Can it handle top of funnel all the way through the phases of the bind journey to low funnel? Do we still need to rely on other platforms? Yeah, so I would a hundred percent agree that we're applicable. You want to have, obviously media. Your media plan should have a strategy related most importantly to the business subjective that you're looking to saw, regardless of that business subjective, and for dealers it's driving arrows, driving sales right, retaining customers, acquiring new vehicles, maybe upselling that vehicle, that customer into a new vehicle. In the end of the day it's liftime value. We measure succept at the dealership. It's how do we retain and keep that customer for life, and Amazon fits very, very well into that marketing funnel because Amazon naturally is a midfunnel customer and at times it's going to be upper funnel. And so when we say talk about brand awareness and upper funnel it's all the Ott that we're delivering is predominantly going to be upper funnel in terms of building that brand awareness, and then we layer in, we sort of couple that bottom funnel in ten, or we get more into that consideration midfunnel and ten by layering in inventory feeds, by trying to show users, Hey, this is the dealers brand promise, right, this is the brand promise from the dealer, and here inventory coupled with that, that experience with that dealers brand promise, and so we sort of blend it. I would say Amazon's a very midfunnel customer and based on this strategy, you deliver could be more upper funnel, more leaning into that brand awareness play, or extraordinarily bottom funnel, and I would say most of our display direct response campaigns are mainly bottom funnel ads that...

...are served to a very mid funnel customer. So out of the box, amazoncom is an ECOMMERCE shopper. Think of who an Amazon user is. It's somebody who's shopping for convenience. They want it delivered to their home, they want it fast, right in terms of two day a prime shipping right. So you know, I would say you need in terms of the media plan. You hit the nail on the head. You need Google, you need facebook, you need other channels to support holistic media plan. But depending you know, I'm not I don't want to be. I tell people, you know dealers in particular, you know marketing directors. We talked about this all the time, all the time. I am not the shiny thing on the block that you're going to go all in on as a media buy or media planner. I would highly advise against that. And we tell our customers, even though we only deliver programmatic media on Amazon, we have customers media plan with us. I say, Hey, let me look at your media plan, your cost per sale and try to back into finding you efficiencies to buy on our channel right and so in doing that we naturally fit. I would say your your point, which is, you know, where does Amazon Fall? Well, now, Amazon users midfunnel and how you attack or approach that strategy, you can make you can push budget towards a more brand awareness upper funnel intent or you can you can gear that budget more towards a more bottom funnel campaign strategy. HMM, so it's flexible. You know, whereas search tends to be mainly right bottom funnel, midfunnel in ten social being a lot more of that brand awareness. I don't even call facebook ads. I don't even look at facebook ads as a significant midfunnel, bottom funnel campaign strategy anymore. After I have evaluated, you know, over the years the quality of the leads that I've seen coming through the platform. I really think that, you know, they've been they've validated the effectiveness really through that offline attribution piece as well, and they did it because they knew that they can track back the impression right to someone who was exposed to the brand. And so facebook was hey, let's turn to facebook to get leads, leads, leads. Then dealers realized no, let's go to facebook and some of these paid social strategies is a way to be more brand awareness, to go a long term. And so, you know, my best recommendation there too is like, well, what is your dealer trying to accomplish? How does that media let's stop. That's the bigges thing. Let's stop media planning on the Thirty Day. Can we stop that? Can we stop? We understand way as it as it as a vendor in the space. We will tailor to your incentives. That, though, Yem is right. Great. Well, let's think about your strategy over a twelvemonth window, right. I think that's another thing thing here to write. When we're thinking about how do we get that media plan and be more effective, will look at it. It'll broader window and and back into your business objectives. From there you're going to find you're going to give yourself a lot of more flexibility and you're going to give yourself a lot more, I think, affected direction in terms of WHO and what media you're buying, right, and so that's that's where it's going to expose, like, am I spending too much our Google? I'm spending too much on facebook? Over a longer window, right, that's that's what I'm getting at. Yeah, it makes perfect sense to me. I mean look, if your only business objective is to get ads with dynamic inventory insertion happening, then you're you're successful. If that's your only objective, you succeeded, except, oh wait, you're not satisfied with that. Why doesn't turn you around the results that you're looking for? Oh why? Because you haven't defined your business...

...mission yet. What do you try? What are you aiming to achieve? And then, oops, can't happen in a thirty day window, because historically, life experience tells all of us that anything worth while takes a while. And so I love what you're saying, man, about let's look at your year. You know where you want to get this year. I mean, heck, let's look at your quarter. Even know what you're trying to accomplish this quarter, and then lean backwards, kind of your point, lean backwards into well, what are the what are the tactics then? What do I need to deploy or execute upon in order to make that overarching goal happen? But again, like I said, if just getting vehicles listed through dynamic ads is the goal, then you already won, except, oops, you didn't get the result you wanted, which tells me that wasn't your objective. You know what I mean? Like it's it's funny, and I say it that way, you know, tongue in cheek, because it's like we need to start acknowledging the fact that so few dealers, not just dealers, businesses, people, don't have a road map that they're working off of. And and I think, I don't know, I'd love your take, but I think that's what's keeping people in thirty day cycles. It is. It definitely is, and you know I I do want around that out. You know a little bit more. I think it needs this topic needs to be spoken about more effectively because you know a lot of the conversation we had. I think we built this, I say we built this Amazon business at the bottom of the market. What I mean by that is dealers were not looking to spend ad dollars and we were walking in with a very effective solution to find a more efficient media buy. But it wasn't just it's not just about efficiency in the end of the day, right you you look at the big, big brands like Carvana, carmacks, who are coming in a little bit more at macro level when you know they obviously have a lot more to spend at that DMA space. But they understand the brand awareness, they understand the long term investment and our solve to dealers who are thinking a little bit more short term is let us prove it out for you. Within three thousand and sixty ninety days you give us your sales data and Lee data to match back to the channel, we can prove the return on ad spend. And so that's been very, very compelling in a space where measuring success in a media channel today is rather difficult, and so you know Amazon being on that bleeding edge. We can solve for that. Once we do that, the other more basic approach, without going that deeper, I say full funnel Amazon Advertising, is what we've brought to market. You can just look at your overall medium mix. Put everybody on paper, your vendor fees, your Google spent, your Carscom third party endemic snake oil listing. Right, that's be on there. Throw the you know, some random tool that you bought. Think you're paying six hundred month. Add it all up, calculate your cost for car soul, simple math, right, right, and back in, back into your media plan. From there you'll probably free up fifty, Sixtyzero that you can start to spend in a more longer term media by like a brand awareness campaign, like a awesome video asset on Ott that talks about Soandso. Dealer, right, and your message in the local market. You can compete. Is what I'm telling dealer is with this. I'm not saying by US, because it's Amazon. No, I'm saying by the into the media channel and instruct your media plan to deliver results for you right, and so I think that's the biggest thing and I think you hit the nail on the head. I...

...hope that if there's anything dealers take away from this, it's that you got to stop thinking short term with your media and marketing and embrace that long term investment into what you're delivering in the market, what you're saying to your prospect of customers. HMM, yeah, that makes perfect sense. I got one final question for you along the lines of attribution. When we met back in Amazon, is it taking all the credit? Is there a way to account for a mixed media model? How does that how does that look? How what should dealer be aware of when mapping back through Amazon? Yeah, so when we receive the data goes into a clean room, right fully anonymized. We don't know who the user is on Amazon, and what we get back are a few key results. One is the integrity of the list that we just uploaded and when we do that we can see the match rate on the actual user email. So what we found is like our match rates right now, and this may be an advent of you know who the actual stakeholder in the household was when they purchased the vehicle right. That doesn't always write translate to an Amazon user account or the other piece to this too is, you know, maybe they purchased the vehicle with, you know, a different email that was more towards their work email, but their Amazon account is on their personal email. Our average match rates are sixty two, seventy percent as well. Found and when we match it match back the the view through attribution is from the impression, so it's not the click, and so Amazon is going to attribute right. They know who you are when you are logged into Amazon all of our campaigns. This is pretty this is pretty key. We use the shipping address, zip code when it across all of our targeting. Right. So if you go on vacation to Bahamas, still getting an ad in doubt acis where you live, right, because we know the ZIP codes on your shipping your actual shipping a right, right. And so we minimize up the thirty percent of wasted spend and we are match back is attributed more accurately because we're only serving an ad to a lock and Amazon user. That's pretty key. And so there's there are efficiencies and also benefits in the match rate because we're serving it to a real eyeball, somebody who is locked into Amazon. They live in a very specific location and so you know, when you ask that question, it is still variable, right. It's a moving target and we are testing and uploading the the integrity of the list the same as true, though, and we ask dealers, you know, when we are to articulate this back and our reporting calls, how clean is your crm? And you know, we do rely on the market a little bit here, on dealers effectively giving us the data right and having that data be clean, right, you know, and that's the other side to this too. That I think, is that it's sort of it's a little bit of a work in progress, sure, you know, because it is new. It's not normal for an agency to say, Hey, give me your sales data or bend, hey give me or set and and people are reluctant to do it. But once they understand why, it's a no brainer, right, like I want to know as much information about my business in order to get to spend my dollars most effectively, and I think dealers are really leaning into that. Yeah, I appreciate the realistic answer, you know, and how in depth you went there. There's this thing in our industry, in human nature, we guess got to get rid of, and that is thinking that perfection is possible. You look at NASA, who arguably employs the smartest people on...

...planet Earth, and they still manage to blow a billion dollars in a rocket that explodes on launch. And so if they're prone to not being perfect but always driving for progress, then in our industry we need to stop expecting that a perfect anything exists. We need to stop being so hard on vendors and on dealers, because we're all screwing up and we're all failing forward, and it's impossible for us to read a Zig ziggler book, fail forward and be like that was so inspirational, and then close it and turn around and be like, Oh, what do you mean? Your attributions of work in Progress F this? You know? No, sorry, we screw things up and it's never going to be perfect. However, what I appreciate is how you laid that out and said, well, look, here's, here's how the data gets clean, here's here's some things that can mitigate some errors, like how well is your crn process, etc. Because, I guess what I'm just trying to highlight here is if you're listening to this and you're expecting perfect without a process internally, you've already failed. But if you do some key pieces right, that shouldn't have to really alter a ton that are healthy practices anyway. This can be a very benefit, shual, very efficient, very practical audition or compliment to programs that you already have running. The CELIOS man. Thank you so much for joining me on the show. How can those listening get in touch with you? Yeah, I'm going to be in digital dealer in Tampa next month, so you can see me in person, but you can find me on Linkedin. You searched by Celios lambos. Very easy to be found on Linkedin. That's sort of my preferred channel. Per Se on social to get in contact and also cognition digital. That io is our website. Come check it out, submit, submit a request for Demo on our team will hop on and we'll be there to educate. Like you said, it's really about education and we're here to pursue excellence, but not perfection. Love the man. Thanks so much for joining me on the dealer playbook podcast. Thank you. I'm Michael Sirillo and you've been listening to the dealer playbook podcast. If you haven't yet, please click the subscribe button wherever you're listening right now. Leave a rating or review and share it with a call week thanks for listening.

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