The Dealer Playbook
The Dealer Playbook

Episode · 7 months ago

Brian Kramer: How To Modernize Your Dealership Process


Brian Kramer is the general manager of Germain Toyota of Naples and is the pioneer of the 100% paperless car sales transaction. His work has forged the path in assisting his dealership and others with the digital evolution. 

In this episode, Brian will speak about how to galvanize your existing dealership processes so that you can meet the needs of today's car shoppers. He'll also explain how he's leveraging companies like Carvana and Vroom to help his dealership adapt and evolve. 

Noteworthy topics from this episode:

2:30 - What do you mean by galvanizing existing processes?

3:54 - When did you feel that there is a shift coming?

7:34 - What are some things you consider on daily basis to demonstrate that leadership?

12:39 - How did you go 100% paperless and how long does it take?

20:10 - “Roll up your sleeves and get into the dirty work” attitude.

23:04 - Who are these “barbarians” that you speak of?

31:39 - What do you recommend dealers start working immediately to see this transformation take place? 

If you're enjoying the show, share it with your colleagues! We're on a mission to empower automotive professionals around the world. 

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If you enjoyed this episode, leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts!

Hey, getting welcome to this episode ofthe dealer Playbook, a podcast that explores what it takes to create athriving career right here in the retail auto industry. I'm your host,Michael Chiarello, delighted! Overjoyed to be joined by my pal brian Kramer. Weare going to dig in to how you can modernize your dealership process. Youknow, something about world events in the last couple of years, has had theindustry reeling about what's coming, what's the next thing that willpotentially disrupt the way the automotive industry works? The pandemicwith widespread lockdowns demonstrated that there is in fact a growingdemographic of consumers that would prefer to buy a vehicle online. Yetmany dealers are struggling to evolve from the traditional way of doingthings and I don't blame them. I mean, it can seem like a daunting andoverwhelming task. There's a lot to consider. I mean, I remember when myfamily business was in the telephone book publishing industry, imagineevolving from something like that to the automotive marketing sphere andespecially digital. I mean it was a huge leap. I remember just kind ofsitting there sometimes with you know scratching my head being like what am Idoing? Like uh there's so many facets, okay, and so we we completely get howoverwhelming this task can be. Luckily we get to sit down with the dealer whohas done a tremendous job at galvanizing his existing businessprocesses for digital transformation while preparing methodically for whathe calls the future barbarians at the gate Brian Kramer is the generalmanager of German Toyota of Naples and is the pioneer of 100% paperlesstransactions in so doing he has forged a path in assisting dealerships withtheir their digital evolution. My man brian Cramer, welcome to the dealerPlaybook podcast. Thanks for having me. I'm a huge fan so I appreciate being apart of this. Well you're, you're too kind, you're making me blush, but thatdoesn't mean I'm gonna give you easy questions either. You know, just just,just kidding. I figured that was going to be the case. I'm kidding. I'mkidding. 1st. I want to kind of dig into what do you mean by galvanizingexisting processes? So good question. So very similar togalvanize and metal. There's a certain set of steps that have to be layered inand if you don't galvanize that you're not going to protect it from long termcorrosion and rust in the long term, you know, Nokia blockbuster, the hotelindustry as we knew it before. The mom and Pop, uh, you know, when I used tocome down to florida as a kid from Ohio or Chicago, we would pass by all thesemom and Pop very similar to the...

...dealership. You know, maybe four ofthem and you go negotiate from this location of this location and all of asudden when it got flattened out digitally with Travelocity before mary,I sort of branding themselves and Expedia and all the other stuff inbetween. Yeah, It wasn't an efficient market and nowit is so to prevent because the car business is just about 20 years behindthat, in my opinion. And we're going through the biggest tipping point I'veever seen in 26 years. So we've got to galvanize ourselves so that we don'trust out and, you know, become obsolete. So what are some factors you'reconsidering as part of that? I mean, when, when did this first hit you? Yousaid 26 years. So I'm assuming 26 years in the business now. Yes. And so at what point do you starttaking notes and saying, oh man, like there's a shift coming and and it couldpotentially impact my industry? Well the first time I ever experiencedit was back and I think in 97 98 when Autobytel came in and they said this isgonna be the end of the car sales. People as we know it, their customersare just gonna buy directly from the internet and it's gonna be like buyingbooks on amazon and everybody freaked out there like what's going on. Andreally at the end of the day the O. E. M. S. Mandated a a computer in thecorner of the showroom and they asked me to do it at one point they said hecan you just update the website, update this and you handle all these deals.But you could you had no empowerment, no control, no enablement. Which isstill an issue in this industry today. And I couldn't desk a deal. I couldn'tgive the customers the information but they wanted to go. And and that was a97 98. And I don't think that much has really changed since then. You know,from a model. They're still, in most cases they still have to go to the deskto work numbers. They still have to, it's not a decentralized environment.It's a very inefficient thing. Too fast forward. When I first time for amazonprime, I thought to myself, you know, how easy is this? How loyal is this Thefirst time I ever didn't consider price as the number one motivating factor andthen started trying to break it down and reverse. How do we reverse engineerthis? How do we, how can you do something like that and watch? Andreally at the end of the day it was all about the customer and I really wasn'tfiguring, you know, connecting the dots on that. And as Bezos kept saying, it'sabout the customer, you look at the customer, reverse it backwards, samething with steve jobs and it's easier said than done and then selling therest of your team on that. And I've had, I've worked in multiple dealershipsprivately held, publicly held and the difference in this current dealershipwhere I'm working at is I've got the most amazing team managers, most ofthem are home grown from within. They all share a common vision, you know,from one of my GSM to Ryan, my new car director and then kind of who I broughtdown josh James who and they all have different roles, you know, and, andsteve Detroit taki care Nicholas, none of them do the exact same thing, Theyswitch it up, they all know exactly what their role is on. Like a seal team.There was a gunner, there's a...

...demolitions guy, there's a, you know,it's just everybody knows what they're supposed to do and they can trust eachother that it's going to get done. Yeah, I kind of love that that visual, right?You picture this squad rolling down the street and each of them is so focusedon their role and, but in so doing, they're actually providing the bestservice that they possibly can to each of their other team or squad membersand often in the business landscape, it's kind of like this every man forhimself. I've even noticed like people that say, oh yeah, my team, but theydon't like, it's more lip service. They don't actually that their behaviordoesn't demonstrate team. And so I love the sentiments that you're sharingbecause you know, to have you as a leader in the store going first andforemost to I have a team like acknowledging how great your team is,shows the culture shift that is required I think to do what you said byessentially reverse engineering the customer, right? And they got to sincerely do it,not just like you're saying lip service where? Oh yeah, we're all about thecustomer. You advertise it and then once they show up, Oh yeah, I got aspecial deal for you, which is what happens in so many dealerships. Youknow, we often hear two like its top down, right? A lot of the times we,when we talk about this kind of stuff, we go, well, leadership, it's gottacome from the top down. So let me ask you as a senior leader in your store, what does that look like for you? Whatare some things that are on your mind or what are some things that youconsider on a daily basis? In order to demonstrate that leadership to yourteam? Mm So I would say anymore it's reversementoring. You know I just wanted a trickier recently where I was the oldguy for the first time in my life with all these younger guys and I have neverexperienced that before and it was a surreal experience and I was beingreverse mentored buy some really smart people which is what I am constantlyhere and I you know I throw out a lot of crazy stuff and so do they. But someof the stuff that I really try to stretch because I try to go outside ofautomotive and say well this works here. I just had this experience of thisappliance store and and this really cool thing that I experienced onlineand most of the people that I'm surrounded with our younger than me andit's it's more you know when do I get a sense of myself that are that are olderthan all these guys, so they're teaching us technology and how toconnect everything, but they're also teaching us there. It took me a longtime to be comfortable being called out and you know like the last saturday oflast month, every single morning we have a huddle game plan, here's whatwe're gonna do, especially on saturday. So you're gonna be on appointments,you're gonna be doing one on ones, you're gonna be doing showroom todosand we switch it off to keep it uh fun so it's not getting redundant. But I'vetold josh James, I said here I want you in the conference room with me becausewe're gonna do save a deal and we're gonna go mine for all these unsoldappointment. So we're gonna go through...

...appraisals, that's how we're gonna getto the number. And he said, with all due respect and I'll do whatever youwant to do. I don't think that's the best route to go. So okay, why is that?And he broke it down succinctly. And I said you guys all agree with that andthey all unanimously voted against me, which I'm all about. And insecuritydidn't used to allow me to do that, but we hit the number, exceeded the numberand they were right. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I was just watching aHoward Stern interview with the Foo fighters and one of the questions thatHoward Stern asked and by the way, spoiler alert, huge foo fighters fanover here. I don't know what it's like. They just, yeah man, like they, they'vegot to be the A. C D. C of our generation, you know what I mean? Likethat? And they just keep going anyway. So Howard Stern asks what it's like tothe rest of the band essentially, what is it like working with somebody likeDave Groll? Because we all know that a first of all, like you're the drummerin Nirvana, like you've got some clout next, you're known for basicallypicking up any instrument and figuring it out yourself without any trainingand then writing incredible music and then going into the studio because youtaught yourself to play all these instruments and just play all thepieces yourself essentially whereby over passing your team and there's areason, stick with me, my beloved DP beginning because this goes along withthe thoughts and impressions that I have listening to brian. Um well they all start saying, yeah, youknow, it was difficult in the beginning because of all of these differentfactors Dave Groll himself shared basically a similar sentiment to whatyou just shared, which was like, yeah, I it was difficult because I was like,this is the way I'm hearing it in my head, you play it this way, and if youcan't play it this way, I'm going to do it, I'm going to play it and there'sthis challenge, right? Because in the back of their minds, can you imaginethe stress? Like, ultimately they know? Yeah, he could do it himself. Like I'mreplacing, you can't do it all himself Bingo. So now that he's a little bitolder, he's a little bit wiser, right? Like he's gotta be pushing 50 now, hesaid on the last probably three or four albums, he realized that he was thebiggest barrier to them ultimately creating music or a piece of art thatcould go to the next hole. So he he says himself in his own words and Imean, you could look it up on Youtube, he says I had to just like get the fout of the room and let them do their thing, and then I come into the roomand realized they had created something in a way that I probably would havenever even thought of. And then Here We are with an amazing album. And it mademe think of that, you know, just super relatable to what you just said. Likemy my insecurity got in the way. But...

...look at you also said something herethat I wrote down, which is willingness to be taught like, how many leaders doyou think can actually say that and especially in a cutthroat industry likeours, like the willingness to be taught. So I think that's tremendous. Now letme, let me ask you this, you pioneer a paperless transaction or process. How do you navigate going from paperless old school, traditional dotmatrix printers? How do you go from something like that to 100% paperless?What was the first thing you tackled? So it happened in for Covid? Itprobably wouldn't have happened because you gotta have enough doubt. Like Ialways do it today. I don't think it would be possible, but the first thingwas laid out the vision. This is what it should look like at the end. Doeseverybody agree? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Let's just figure out whatit's going to take in order to make that happen. And normally these guysare so busy sawing that they don't have time to sharpen the blade. So I finallyhad the time to be able to process method. You know, I went to the DisneyInstitute, think he was something called customer journey mapping. Aprocess mapping. So we mapped it out and we figured out, okay, this is wherewe are, this is where we need to be, what are all the friction points inbetween. And as we started going through a, we identified there wasbasically 89 Main friction points and we had to tackle them one at a time.The key was not to tackle another one until the first one was complete, whichwas absolutely painful because you want to be able to just start mowing themall down individually. In retrospect, what I should have done is I shouldhave assigned each manager one pain point. We would have gotten there a lotfaster instead of me hijacking them and hold them hostage in a conference roomon a whiteboard. Okay. How do we do this? How do we do this? The onlyreason I was able to keep their attention is because there was nocustomers because if not they would have bailed on me. All right. Well that's actually one ofthe interesting things is they say I don't know how many customers want todo this. You know we're building this whole process. How do we even know thatwe're even doing this for? What's the point until we have any data? Thecustomers I talk to you don't want to do it. I will be when steve jobsintroduced the iphone. I didn't want it either because I didn't want to go onmy keyboard on my blackberry and it took me two years to adopt that becauseI didn't want to change myself. But they don't know what they don't knowand we haven't shown them, you know, it could be. So how do they know that theydon't like it? And as that's happening, Doordash is delivering food to everysingle one of them because nobody wants to leave. And I said, you see the ironyhere that it's happening right now with you and you're comfortable doing it.How do we make that happen for the customer? And that's and then we justwent down through the selection test drive, how do you do it in store?Virtually remote? And each one had a...

...different journey, you know, the how doyou do a virtual trade appraisal which has been a game changer for us? How doyou work menus, price and payments, and the answer to that ultimatelyenablement and empowerment. How do you do the FBI process virtually? That wasa very, you know, in the short answer. And that is you take the dot matrixprinters and you unplug them in the middle of the night and they're notthere the next day when everybody comes in. So you ships in the heart. So, uh,and you do the same thing with forms and it's and it's no different than,you know, it's burning the ships in the harbor. How strong and how long didthis? I'll take. It wasn't an overnight thing. You you said that, but I meanwhat? And during a pandemic or a lockdown or anything like that. Sofeasibly for dealers listening today, now that we're not in lockdown anymoreand things are starting to open up. How long does this take? So we were getting close to it. And Ithink every deal is 70% 80% of the way there. It's that last 20%. That's thereal pain point. And you've got to be willing to let go of other ways inorder to put insane amounts of energy behind the few things that you dochoose to move forward with you all I had to be okay with letting go of someof the things that were bothering me and you know showroom traffic controland you know you only do two or three things at a time. So everything don'tyou see this? Don't you see that? Yeah but I have A. D. H. D. I can only focuson I'm already at a disadvantage to begin with let alone you start throwingall this other stuff on me. So As we're going through what's the most importantthing? It's also important to say what you're not going to control and youhave to be willing to let go of a few things. But the answer to your questionis it took about 60 days if you really grind at it and you really map it outand planet. But that was just the beginning because once we felt like weput a flag on the top of Mount Everest that connecting the stuff is easy inretrospect is changing the culture to where everybody believes it so thatwhen you walk out the door, they believe it and now they believe it morethan I do. They just held me accountable on my sister's transaction.They wouldn't put her name on it without a deposit because that's whattriggers everything else. And they thought it was a test and they said no,no, he's just testing the culture. Do not hold that car for his sister. Hehas to go through the same process as everybody else. And I ended up puttinga deposit cause I'm gonna get a hold of her. And I didn't want to lose the carbecause the inventory is so tight. But they're right and they should hold meaccountable to that because I can't preach one thing and then toleratesomething else. Um, I think that's super interesting.It's while it's a matter of eating your own dog food, Yes. Got to eat your own doctor. And Ilove that you've built a culture whereby your team is comfortableholding you accountable. Is that uncomfortable? How do you, howdo you do that? How do you set that...

...tone as a week? Yeah. So we went through the The fivedysfunctions of a team training, you know, by starting with trust and whatheld us back a long time was we weren't comfortable confronting each other. Andwe talked earlier about the role clarity and diffusion of responsibility.We have three people to self and others one. So there's only one person. Theyknow there's no other support coming. There's no lifeline. They've got to getit done. And the person on appointments, if they don't get it done, it's veryclear who didn't get the appointments done. And they also have to be veryokay calling each other out without fear of retribution and not publicly,but in private, which they do an amazing job of and they do an amazingjob calling calling me out, you know, hey, I needed this from you. I know yougot this going on and it puts a lot of pressure on me because it's I got tolive up to my end of the deal no differently than they do with what Icommitted to because it's like a promise. But it doesn't, that takestime and you've got to have I guess you got to be comfortable enough in yourown skin to not feel threatened by that as the the senior leader. I think a lotof times, I mean if I look back at my own leadership journey where you know, I used to be thestereotypical boss, you know what I mean? Like you show up, I write yourpaycheck, you do the work end of transaction. But I also that's all wedo. That's what we saw. Yeah. And and the transformation that takes placewhen you start caring for people. I mean, I went through motions where I'mlike, wait. But then will they take me seriously? Willthey respect me as a leader with like all of these thoughts? And I and I canonly imagine if I thought those things, other people's must must be thinkingthose things as well. But you're you are another living testament to thefact that this can be done and and that it requires a great deal of selfawareness. But that's just that willingness to learn and thenwillingness to take out roll up your sleeves and get into the dirty work. And it's hard when we were because youknow, when I first got here, I had worked for jermaine before, but then Ileft and went to work for alternation. But when I came back, I wantedeverything to happen a lot quicker than was realistic with the expectations andthe clarity that was currently in place in the technology. So I'm trying tomicrowave instead of slow cooking it and breaking things along along the way.But we were in performance review. The store wasn't doing well. Salesefficiency, service retention, you name it and it was, you know, there was anopportunity. So in the face of O E. M, pressure to still dig in on the culture.That's the most painful. Some of the most stressful experiences I've everbeen through. We brought in tim kite whose Ohio state football culture coach,which was not a, in an expensive thing.

So to spend money when you're notmaking a ton of money at that time and talk about culture, which is more of asoft, You know, it's not immediate by the end of the month marketing spend,let's spend this and we can get this. We do mailer, we can generate this muchimmediately. It's such a long term play. And he talked about trust. He talkedabout, uh, the number one thing he and urban Meyer said that helps anorganization is eradicating BCD, blaming others, complaining about whythings are complaining about circumstances are defending, why thingshappened. And really, for the most part, um, that including them doing it to me, youknow, inventory shortages, Even bringing it up. My staff managementstudy in the sales staff. Whoa. What are you talking about? Why are youbringing that up? I don't want to hear it. We're gonna sell 25 cars today. Weneed 25 cars in the moral coming tomorrow. We don't need to, you know,we're gonna sell 600 cars this month. We've got 37 new cars on the ground, wow. But it's an every day, you know?Yeah, you're in the game. You're in the game. I love them more than us. Yeah,yeah, yeah. No, for sure. Well, I mean, and but it goes back to full circle toyour analogy in the beginning, like every squad needs a leader, right? Um, and so it's moredecentralized command. Yeah. You know, and I think sometimes what we sufferfrom in not just this industry, any industry really any business is they go,oh the leader isn't really doing much or the coach of the team just standsthere and calls the play. No, you you would feel it if Urban Mayor steppedoff the field like you would feel it, you know what Imean? And and same with your star players, like it is a it is a finedance right to navigate that switching gears a little bit. Who who or what are these barbariansthat you speak of at the gate? So not to call people out specifically,but I wouldn't say Carbonara okay for room shift. Um not just those entities,but I would also, you know, Carmax has already been there for a minute, butthey're just now getting into this online realm, but I would, it is goingto sound harsh. I compare a lot of these to the, to the nazis, but thenazis were lining up. I know that I'm trying to make that, I think you'regoing to say Mcdonald's or I make that my session topic and digital dealerbecause here and here's why so, so...

...because the it's no different thanFrance on the eastern front. You know, neville chamberlain in World War Two issitting there saying, well, why don't you worry about the Germans? I knowthey just roll Poland and Churchill saying, look, this is a real thing.They're coming this way. They've been building up this, this whole megasystem, Oh no, you know, that's fine. They're not a threat to us. We don'thave to worry about it, Charles DeGaulle, not a big deal. They lined upa 250 km traffic jam of tanks right on the eastern front, right outside ofBelgium. Uh that's a problem. Well, they haven't filed a declaration of warso we don't have much to worry about. Well, guess what? Carbon of room don'thave to do with matt guidelines. Om restrictions on the website. What whichis what vendors, what does shift digital say that they can? Uh there'sno mandates, right? Can I run a suitable commercial with jumper cablesin an interrogation room? They don't say I'm actually coming up with thecampaign to tv campaign name. Uh can you call of any machine after you takedelivery and you know, not be on hold for however long. Can you talk to thevending machine? What happens after the sale? I just had a customer issue thismorning. That was wrong because I didn't think this was going to gethandled and I said, it's not like you're dealing with the vending machine.You know, that's why you deal with a local dealer, so you're coming to dealwith a real person. But the real thing that's happening is auctions are dryingup. The, everybody's saying, well, there's not enough cars at the auction.Can we find this? A Desa and car are going completely virtual and gettingrid of their bricks and mortar? Um, you know, auctions, then you've also gotcar offer back lock cars. Um, SCP auctions all of that is becomingdecentralized. So we're in the office and we're trying to do, We're out, whatshould we praise a car for? If we're not really looking at 60% of the dataand as the auction volume is down 125,000 units per quarter. Carbon is selling 92,000 cars if youwant. And they're doing it at $3800 a copy. So everyone can say, well, carbonis crazy, just like they said about Carmax, they're putting stupid money inthese cars, well, they're still selling and then they're selling themprofitably profitably because they're not they're not looking at everythinglike the way we've always looked at it. They're looking at historical data,they're looking at what can they sell the car for in their market and they'renot all hooked on the same. And I'm not saying not to use the auto, but youshould use multiple sources of data. Not just become reliant on one becausethen it's like the fleas and a jar analogy. Yeah. And all you do is jumpOut 100 And it makes me think of also, mhm getting upset with a competitor orseeing a different way of doing things and then doing it that way, you know,like I'm sure or at least I would like to, I think that if we somehow invitedthe ceo of car Vonna or room to this...

...zoom session right now, he's not goingto be a deck of a human. He's probably just like, hey, I'm a guy that saw abusiness opportunity and I went for it. But here we are to your point in a veryregulated industry where so many things don'tmake any sense. Like why, why is shift digital still a thing? You know, I have no problems control.Yeah. And why do they have the amount of control that they do like their amonarch or or a governor general for crying out loud and nobody knows whatthey do except for make our lives more difficult. Why does this still exist?And how can we hope to evolve? So I think the frustration for me at leastcomes from the fact that it's like trying to turn the titanic around in abathtub to see any changes happen. But meanwhile we are focusing ourfrustration at another group of individuals living the american dream that have removed obstacles in there.You know, I I've studied these competitors extensively and they'reextremely intelligent and the way they go about doing business and I havecopied carbon and rooms acquisition strategy. I have zero problem acquiringtrades. We've got more trade than we know what to do with used cars And thereason we can wholesale some of them. To me really, if they just use carbondisplay, you don't need the auctions because you'll have more inventory thanyou know what to do with. Yeah, I think it's tremendous. But you can't playgames and you can't hold back. And I had a conversation with my manager theother day, They were still working that deal. Let me talk to him. And I said,well we held back $500 on the trade and Carbonneau doesn't do that room,doesn't do that. Well, let's just see if we can get it for that. I go, howabout, I'm just texting them the appraisal and I'm gonna $5,000. Wellhold on. And I said because I'm gonna look at it like a bomb and groomed updo, first of all gonna be transparent and I'm just gonna just do a lot ofreciprocity and I'm going to establish digital trust by putting just tellingthem what it is without any commitment from them. And I know that on thatparticular year make model that we average five times that when we retailit, the problem is we can't get enough of them So as many as humanly possible.I'm just going to just reach up like yeah, but that's 112%. I don't carewhat percentage it is. We sell them for this and we sell them in six days,whatever that percentages throw it out the window because 2018 Highlanderlimited and Limited Platinum's sell for this and they don't last long and onaverage 80% of the finance and if I just play the aggregate will win andwe're gonna lose money on some. So what carbon? It doesn't care. Neither doesamazon. Yeah. You know, the visual for me is this we tend to surrender and I'mI'm generally speaking here, but we tend to surrender all of our power tothat, which we don't understand. So we...

...see Car Vonna, we see Vroom, we seeshift, we see uh Carfax, we see anybody who's venturing into this space and weimmediately resort to a turtle in his shell by saying, but they're a barbarian dude,you're a freaking Demi god, just because they're a barbarian,doesn't mean you can't be a barbarian too, and you just highlighted that. Butwhy do we get, Oh, oh no, we're they're coming for me, dude, freaking fightback. Stand up. Don't do no different than any other time where you see inancient history where why didn't they just revolt of Spartacus? You know, andyou're you're looking at it, their dealers outnumber those retailers we'retalking about if everybody ran their play, which it's going to be blasphemy.When I say this, it's a superior play to what we're running. It's transparent,it takes out all the inefficiencies. If we all did that, they would we wouldcut them off at the food supply and they would starve 100% and there'sstill time, there's still so much within ourcontrol. That's why I love this conversation with you man, it's allabout taking control. You're not sitting here and scouring down andyou're saying who they're barbarian, There are barbarians at the gate. Guesswhat? I'm a titan, I'm a barbarian. Just because they're a barbariandoesn't mean I don't last year's 100%. So I I love this conversation. Let meask you as one final question for the, for the dealership listening today,what do you recommend they start working on immediately to start seeingthis transformation take place? Okay. That you said no tough questions,so that's a good one. I would without trying to boil the ocean. I would workon, how do you securely take loan applications online? How do youappraise vehicles virtually. And I would mystery shop Carbonara, I boughta car from carbon and backed out on it at the last minute. But if you reallywant to understand the competitors go on that, that journey Right now, we'redigitizing our rental car process and right now we're seeing a hugeopportunity in terms of used car inventories. So we're gonna, we're over100 and we're planning to get to 200 in terms of rental car fleet and then moreand in doing that I'm shopping Avis Enterprise Hertz and they are alsosuperior when it comes to online experience to us Pep boys and placeslike that with parts, but whatever process we want to listen to emulate,you know, carbon has the best appraisal process. So generally then, and whathappens after you actually inquire about it to follow up that occursdeclared of explanation of next steps? The frequently asked questions room aswell. They're fantastic. The problem is,... that after it goes off line andyou're not dealing with a chat bot, It's a three hour whole time, which istheir achilles heel. So when you exploit that so we can master the otherstuff that they're mastering, which is, it's actually not that hard. It's hardfor us to change your mindset and to change some of the legacy managers,which I'm one of them and many of my guys are, but they see it now andthey're making more money than they could ever imagine doing that doing itthat way and, and we're completely self sufficient. I haven't bought a car atthe auction in two years. You know what, I don't choose to beafraid of this kind of stuff. I'm inspired by it. It excites me, it givesme something fun and new to go and investigate like I just took thesenotes securely securely take the loan application process. You know, figurethat out online, Go on the competitor journey. Like why wouldn't you copyevery last email? They send copy every because guess what guys, they did it toyou. That's how they developed this whole process. That's how they came upwith something better because they bought cars the traditional way before.But then like to your point, you said this earlier brian, which is um, you can't like, who are you goingto call when you thought you were buying asymphony bar from the, from the vending machine. But it actually ended up beinga Toblerone, you know, like who do you call? Youknow, there's no number on the vending machine and you really want to sit onthe phone for three hours like dealers to your point have this ability tohandle top to bottom front, back loyalty into ascension, generationalwealth, long term relationships, dealerships have the control of thatentire thing. And so I'm excited by the prospect of, of standing up against thebarbarians at the gate and, and like you said, just knocking them off attheir achilles heel. Absolutely man, this was a pleasure. I'm so glad youwere able to join me on the podcast. How can those listening get in touchwith you either. You can email me at beat Cramerat german dot com. I'm on linkedin. I'm on youtube. My daughter recently got meonto ticktock. So uh, ticktock as Cramer brian, twitter on Cramer brian.I never thought I'd see the day. Are you working on Tiktok? Not yet, but mybirthday. So you never know your ideas for content. Oh my gosh, that's theclubhouse. Oh, I love it, man. Thanks so much for joining me on the podcast.Thanks appreciate it.

I'm Michel, Cirillo and you've beenlistening to the dealer Playbook podcast. If you haven't yet, pleaseclick the subscribe button wherever you're listening right now, leave arating or review and share it with a colleague. If you're ready to make bigchanges in your life and career and want to connect with positive,nurturing automotive professionals, join my exclusive DPB pro community onfacebook. That's where we share information, ideas and content thatisn't shared anywhere else. I can't wait to meet you there. Thanks forlistening.

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