The Dealer Playbook
The Dealer Playbook

Episode · 10 months ago

Brian Kramer: How To Modernize Your Dealership Process

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Brian Kramer is the general manager of Germain Toyota of Naples and is the pioneer of the 100% paperless car sales transaction. His work has forged the path in assisting his dealership and others with the digital evolution. 

In this episode, Brian will speak about how to galvanize your existing dealership processes so that you can meet the needs of today's car shoppers. He'll also explain how he's leveraging companies like Carvana and Vroom to help his dealership adapt and evolve. 

Noteworthy topics from this episode:

2:30 - What do you mean by galvanizing existing processes?

3:54 - When did you feel that there is a shift coming?

7:34 - What are some things you consider on daily basis to demonstrate that leadership?

12:39 - How did you go 100% paperless and how long does it take?

20:10 - “Roll up your sleeves and get into the dirty work” attitude.

23:04 - Who are these “barbarians” that you speak of?

31:39 - What do you recommend dealers start working immediately to see this transformation take place? 

If you're enjoying the show, share it with your colleagues! We're on a mission to empower automotive professionals around the world. 

Have a suggestion for a show topic? Send it to michael@thedealerplaybook.com

If you enjoyed this episode, leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts!

Hey, getting welcome to this episode of the dealer Playbook, a podcast that explores what it takes to create a thriving career right here in the retail auto industry. I'm your host, Michael Chiarello, delighted! Overjoyed to be joined by my pal brian Kramer. We are going to dig in to how you can modernize your dealership process. You know, something about world events in the last couple of years, has had the industry reeling about what's coming, what's the next thing that will potentially disrupt the way the automotive industry works? The pandemic with widespread lockdowns demonstrated that there is in fact a growing demographic of consumers that would prefer to buy a vehicle online. Yet many dealers are struggling to evolve from the traditional way of doing things and I don't blame them. I mean, it can seem like a daunting and overwhelming task. There's a lot to consider. I mean, I remember when my family business was in the telephone book publishing industry, imagine evolving from something like that to the automotive marketing sphere and especially digital. I mean it was a huge leap. I remember just kind of sitting there sometimes with you know scratching my head being like what am I doing? Like uh there's so many facets, okay, and so we we completely get how overwhelming this task can be. Luckily we get to sit down with the dealer who has done a tremendous job at galvanizing his existing business processes for digital transformation while preparing methodically for what he calls the future barbarians at the gate Brian Kramer is the general manager of German Toyota of Naples and is the pioneer of 100% paperless transactions in so doing he has forged a path in assisting dealerships with their their digital evolution. My man brian Cramer, welcome to the dealer Playbook podcast. Thanks for having me. I'm a huge fan so I appreciate being a part of this. Well you're, you're too kind, you're making me blush, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna give you easy questions either. You know, just just, just kidding. I figured that was going to be the case. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. 1st. I want to kind of dig into what do you mean by galvanizing existing processes? So good question. So very similar to galvanize and metal. There's a certain set of steps that have to be layered in and if you don't galvanize that you're not going to protect it from long term corrosion and rust in the long term, you know, Nokia blockbuster, the hotel industry as we knew it before. The mom and Pop, uh, you know, when I used to come down to florida as a kid from Ohio or Chicago, we would pass by all these mom and Pop very similar to the...

...dealership. You know, maybe four of them and you go negotiate from this location of this location and all of a sudden when it got flattened out digitally with Travelocity before mary, I sort of branding themselves and Expedia and all the other stuff in between. Yeah, It wasn't an efficient market and now it is so to prevent because the car business is just about 20 years behind that, in my opinion. And we're going through the biggest tipping point I've ever seen in 26 years. So we've got to galvanize ourselves so that we don't rust out and, you know, become obsolete. So what are some factors you're considering as part of that? I mean, when, when did this first hit you? You said 26 years. So I'm assuming 26 years in the business now. Yes. And so at what point do you start taking notes and saying, oh man, like there's a shift coming and and it could potentially impact my industry? Well the first time I ever experienced it was back and I think in 97 98 when Autobytel came in and they said this is gonna be the end of the car sales. People as we know it, their customers are just gonna buy directly from the internet and it's gonna be like buying books on amazon and everybody freaked out there like what's going on. And really at the end of the day the O. E. M. S. Mandated a a computer in the corner of the showroom and they asked me to do it at one point they said he can you just update the website, update this and you handle all these deals. But you could you had no empowerment, no control, no enablement. Which is still an issue in this industry today. And I couldn't desk a deal. I couldn't give the customers the information but they wanted to go. And and that was a 97 98. And I don't think that much has really changed since then. You know, from a model. They're still, in most cases they still have to go to the desk to work numbers. They still have to, it's not a decentralized environment. It's a very inefficient thing. Too fast forward. When I first time for amazon prime, I thought to myself, you know, how easy is this? How loyal is this The first time I ever didn't consider price as the number one motivating factor and then started trying to break it down and reverse. How do we reverse engineer this? How do we, how can you do something like that and watch? And really at the end of the day it was all about the customer and I really wasn't figuring, you know, connecting the dots on that. And as Bezos kept saying, it's about the customer, you look at the customer, reverse it backwards, same thing with steve jobs and it's easier said than done and then selling the rest of your team on that. And I've had, I've worked in multiple dealerships privately held, publicly held and the difference in this current dealership where I'm working at is I've got the most amazing team managers, most of them are home grown from within. They all share a common vision, you know, from one of my GSM to Ryan, my new car director and then kind of who I brought down josh James who and they all have different roles, you know, and, and steve Detroit taki care Nicholas, none of them do the exact same thing, They switch it up, they all know exactly what their role is on. Like a seal team. There was a gunner, there's a...

...demolitions guy, there's a, you know, it's just everybody knows what they're supposed to do and they can trust each other that it's going to get done. Yeah, I kind of love that that visual, right? You picture this squad rolling down the street and each of them is so focused on their role and, but in so doing, they're actually providing the best service that they possibly can to each of their other team or squad members and often in the business landscape, it's kind of like this every man for himself. I've even noticed like people that say, oh yeah, my team, but they don't like, it's more lip service. They don't actually that their behavior doesn't demonstrate team. And so I love the sentiments that you're sharing because you know, to have you as a leader in the store going first and foremost to I have a team like acknowledging how great your team is, shows the culture shift that is required I think to do what you said by essentially reverse engineering the customer, right? And they got to sincerely do it, not just like you're saying lip service where? Oh yeah, we're all about the customer. You advertise it and then once they show up, Oh yeah, I got a special deal for you, which is what happens in so many dealerships. You know, we often hear two like its top down, right? A lot of the times we, when we talk about this kind of stuff, we go, well, leadership, it's gotta come from the top down. So let me ask you as a senior leader in your store, what does that look like for you? What are some things that are on your mind or what are some things that you consider on a daily basis? In order to demonstrate that leadership to your team? Mm So I would say anymore it's reverse mentoring. You know I just wanted a trickier recently where I was the old guy for the first time in my life with all these younger guys and I have never experienced that before and it was a surreal experience and I was being reverse mentored buy some really smart people which is what I am constantly here and I you know I throw out a lot of crazy stuff and so do they. But some of the stuff that I really try to stretch because I try to go outside of automotive and say well this works here. I just had this experience of this appliance store and and this really cool thing that I experienced online and most of the people that I'm surrounded with our younger than me and it's it's more you know when do I get a sense of myself that are that are older than all these guys, so they're teaching us technology and how to connect everything, but they're also teaching us there. It took me a long time to be comfortable being called out and you know like the last saturday of last month, every single morning we have a huddle game plan, here's what we're gonna do, especially on saturday. So you're gonna be on appointments, you're gonna be doing one on ones, you're gonna be doing showroom todos and we switch it off to keep it uh fun so it's not getting redundant. But I've told josh James, I said here I want you in the conference room with me because we're gonna do save a deal and we're gonna go mine for all these unsold appointment. So we're gonna go through...

...appraisals, that's how we're gonna get to the number. And he said, with all due respect and I'll do whatever you want to do. I don't think that's the best route to go. So okay, why is that? And he broke it down succinctly. And I said you guys all agree with that and they all unanimously voted against me, which I'm all about. And insecurity didn't used to allow me to do that, but we hit the number, exceeded the number and they were right. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I was just watching a Howard Stern interview with the Foo fighters and one of the questions that Howard Stern asked and by the way, spoiler alert, huge foo fighters fan over here. I don't know what it's like. They just, yeah man, like they, they've got to be the A. C D. C of our generation, you know what I mean? Like that? And they just keep going anyway. So Howard Stern asks what it's like to the rest of the band essentially, what is it like working with somebody like Dave Groll? Because we all know that a first of all, like you're the drummer in Nirvana, like you've got some clout next, you're known for basically picking up any instrument and figuring it out yourself without any training and then writing incredible music and then going into the studio because you taught yourself to play all these instruments and just play all the pieces yourself essentially whereby over passing your team and there's a reason, stick with me, my beloved DP beginning because this goes along with the thoughts and impressions that I have listening to brian. Um well they all start saying, yeah, you know, it was difficult in the beginning because of all of these different factors Dave Groll himself shared basically a similar sentiment to what you just shared, which was like, yeah, I it was difficult because I was like, this is the way I'm hearing it in my head, you play it this way, and if you can't play it this way, I'm going to do it, I'm going to play it and there's this challenge, right? Because in the back of their minds, can you imagine the stress? Like, ultimately they know? Yeah, he could do it himself. Like I'm replacing, you can't do it all himself Bingo. So now that he's a little bit older, he's a little bit wiser, right? Like he's gotta be pushing 50 now, he said on the last probably three or four albums, he realized that he was the biggest barrier to them ultimately creating music or a piece of art that could go to the next hole. So he he says himself in his own words and I mean, you could look it up on Youtube, he says I had to just like get the f out of the room and let them do their thing, and then I come into the room and realized they had created something in a way that I probably would have never even thought of. And then Here We are with an amazing album. And it made me think of that, you know, just super relatable to what you just said. Like my my insecurity got in the way. But...

...look at you also said something here that I wrote down, which is willingness to be taught like, how many leaders do you think can actually say that and especially in a cutthroat industry like ours, like the willingness to be taught. So I think that's tremendous. Now let me, let me ask you this, you pioneer a paperless transaction or process. How do you navigate going from paperless old school, traditional dot matrix printers? How do you go from something like that to 100% paperless? What was the first thing you tackled? So it happened in for Covid? It probably wouldn't have happened because you gotta have enough doubt. Like I always do it today. I don't think it would be possible, but the first thing was laid out the vision. This is what it should look like at the end. Does everybody agree? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Let's just figure out what it's going to take in order to make that happen. And normally these guys are so busy sawing that they don't have time to sharpen the blade. So I finally had the time to be able to process method. You know, I went to the Disney Institute, think he was something called customer journey mapping. A process mapping. So we mapped it out and we figured out, okay, this is where we are, this is where we need to be, what are all the friction points in between. And as we started going through a, we identified there was basically 89 Main friction points and we had to tackle them one at a time. The key was not to tackle another one until the first one was complete, which was absolutely painful because you want to be able to just start mowing them all down individually. In retrospect, what I should have done is I should have assigned each manager one pain point. We would have gotten there a lot faster instead of me hijacking them and hold them hostage in a conference room on a whiteboard. Okay. How do we do this? How do we do this? The only reason I was able to keep their attention is because there was no customers because if not they would have bailed on me. All right. Well that's actually one of the interesting things is they say I don't know how many customers want to do this. You know we're building this whole process. How do we even know that we're even doing this for? What's the point until we have any data? The customers I talk to you don't want to do it. I will be when steve jobs introduced the iphone. I didn't want it either because I didn't want to go on my keyboard on my blackberry and it took me two years to adopt that because I didn't want to change myself. But they don't know what they don't know and we haven't shown them, you know, it could be. So how do they know that they don't like it? And as that's happening, Doordash is delivering food to every single one of them because nobody wants to leave. And I said, you see the irony here that it's happening right now with you and you're comfortable doing it. How do we make that happen for the customer? And that's and then we just went down through the selection test drive, how do you do it in store? Virtually remote? And each one had a...

...different journey, you know, the how do you do a virtual trade appraisal which has been a game changer for us? How do you work menus, price and payments, and the answer to that ultimately enablement and empowerment. How do you do the FBI process virtually? That was a very, you know, in the short answer. And that is you take the dot matrix printers and you unplug them in the middle of the night and they're not there the next day when everybody comes in. So you ships in the heart. So, uh, and you do the same thing with forms and it's and it's no different than, you know, it's burning the ships in the harbor. How strong and how long did this? I'll take. It wasn't an overnight thing. You you said that, but I mean what? And during a pandemic or a lockdown or anything like that. So feasibly for dealers listening today, now that we're not in lockdown anymore and things are starting to open up. How long does this take? So we were getting close to it. And I think every deal is 70% 80% of the way there. It's that last 20%. That's the real pain point. And you've got to be willing to let go of other ways in order to put insane amounts of energy behind the few things that you do choose to move forward with you all I had to be okay with letting go of some of the things that were bothering me and you know showroom traffic control and you know you only do two or three things at a time. So everything don't you see this? Don't you see that? Yeah but I have A. D. H. D. I can only focus on I'm already at a disadvantage to begin with let alone you start throwing all this other stuff on me. So As we're going through what's the most important thing? It's also important to say what you're not going to control and you have to be willing to let go of a few things. But the answer to your question is it took about 60 days if you really grind at it and you really map it out and planet. But that was just the beginning because once we felt like we put a flag on the top of Mount Everest that connecting the stuff is easy in retrospect is changing the culture to where everybody believes it so that when you walk out the door, they believe it and now they believe it more than I do. They just held me accountable on my sister's transaction. They wouldn't put her name on it without a deposit because that's what triggers everything else. And they thought it was a test and they said no, no, he's just testing the culture. Do not hold that car for his sister. He has to go through the same process as everybody else. And I ended up putting a deposit cause I'm gonna get a hold of her. And I didn't want to lose the car because the inventory is so tight. But they're right and they should hold me accountable to that because I can't preach one thing and then tolerate something else. Um, I think that's super interesting. It's while it's a matter of eating your own dog food, Yes. Got to eat your own doctor. And I love that you've built a culture whereby your team is comfortable holding you accountable. Is that uncomfortable? How do you, how do you do that? How do you set that...

...tone as a week? Yeah. So we went through the The five dysfunctions of a team training, you know, by starting with trust and what held us back a long time was we weren't comfortable confronting each other. And we talked earlier about the role clarity and diffusion of responsibility. We have three people to self and others one. So there's only one person. They know there's no other support coming. There's no lifeline. They've got to get it done. And the person on appointments, if they don't get it done, it's very clear who didn't get the appointments done. And they also have to be very okay calling each other out without fear of retribution and not publicly, but in private, which they do an amazing job of and they do an amazing job calling calling me out, you know, hey, I needed this from you. I know you got this going on and it puts a lot of pressure on me because it's I got to live up to my end of the deal no differently than they do with what I committed to because it's like a promise. But it doesn't, that takes time and you've got to have I guess you got to be comfortable enough in your own skin to not feel threatened by that as the the senior leader. I think a lot of times, I mean if I look back at my own leadership journey where you know, I used to be the stereotypical boss, you know what I mean? Like you show up, I write your paycheck, you do the work end of transaction. But I also that's all we do. That's what we saw. Yeah. And and the transformation that takes place when you start caring for people. I mean, I went through motions where I'm like, wait. But then will they take me seriously? Will they respect me as a leader with like all of these thoughts? And I and I can only imagine if I thought those things, other people's must must be thinking those things as well. But you're you are another living testament to the fact that this can be done and and that it requires a great deal of self awareness. But that's just that willingness to learn and then willingness to take out roll up your sleeves and get into the dirty work. And it's hard when we were because you know, when I first got here, I had worked for jermaine before, but then I left and went to work for alternation. But when I came back, I wanted everything to happen a lot quicker than was realistic with the expectations and the clarity that was currently in place in the technology. So I'm trying to microwave instead of slow cooking it and breaking things along along the way. But we were in performance review. The store wasn't doing well. Sales efficiency, service retention, you name it and it was, you know, there was an opportunity. So in the face of O E. M, pressure to still dig in on the culture. That's the most painful. Some of the most stressful experiences I've ever been through. We brought in tim kite whose Ohio state football culture coach, which was not a, in an expensive thing.

So to spend money when you're not making a ton of money at that time and talk about culture, which is more of a soft, You know, it's not immediate by the end of the month marketing spend, let's spend this and we can get this. We do mailer, we can generate this much immediately. It's such a long term play. And he talked about trust. He talked about, uh, the number one thing he and urban Meyer said that helps an organization is eradicating BCD, blaming others, complaining about why things are complaining about circumstances are defending, why things happened. And really, for the most part, um, that including them doing it to me, you know, inventory shortages, Even bringing it up. My staff management study in the sales staff. Whoa. What are you talking about? Why are you bringing that up? I don't want to hear it. We're gonna sell 25 cars today. We need 25 cars in the moral coming tomorrow. We don't need to, you know, we're gonna sell 600 cars this month. We've got 37 new cars on the ground, wow. But it's an every day, you know? Yeah, you're in the game. You're in the game. I love them more than us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for sure. Well, I mean, and but it goes back to full circle to your analogy in the beginning, like every squad needs a leader, right? Um, and so it's more decentralized command. Yeah. You know, and I think sometimes what we suffer from in not just this industry, any industry really any business is they go, oh the leader isn't really doing much or the coach of the team just stands there and calls the play. No, you you would feel it if Urban Mayor stepped off the field like you would feel it, you know what I mean? And and same with your star players, like it is a it is a fine dance right to navigate that switching gears a little bit. Who who or what are these barbarians that you speak of at the gate? So not to call people out specifically, but I wouldn't say Carbonara okay for room shift. Um not just those entities, but I would also, you know, Carmax has already been there for a minute, but they're just now getting into this online realm, but I would, it is going to sound harsh. I compare a lot of these to the, to the nazis, but the nazis were lining up. I know that I'm trying to make that, I think you're going to say Mcdonald's or I make that my session topic and digital dealer because here and here's why so, so...

...because the it's no different than France on the eastern front. You know, neville chamberlain in World War Two is sitting there saying, well, why don't you worry about the Germans? I know they just roll Poland and Churchill saying, look, this is a real thing. They're coming this way. They've been building up this, this whole mega system, Oh no, you know, that's fine. They're not a threat to us. We don't have to worry about it, Charles DeGaulle, not a big deal. They lined up a 250 km traffic jam of tanks right on the eastern front, right outside of Belgium. Uh that's a problem. Well, they haven't filed a declaration of war so we don't have much to worry about. Well, guess what? Carbon of room don't have to do with matt guidelines. Om restrictions on the website. What which is what vendors, what does shift digital say that they can? Uh there's no mandates, right? Can I run a suitable commercial with jumper cables in an interrogation room? They don't say I'm actually coming up with the campaign to tv campaign name. Uh can you call of any machine after you take delivery and you know, not be on hold for however long. Can you talk to the vending machine? What happens after the sale? I just had a customer issue this morning. That was wrong because I didn't think this was going to get handled and I said, it's not like you're dealing with the vending machine. You know, that's why you deal with a local dealer, so you're coming to deal with a real person. But the real thing that's happening is auctions are drying up. The, everybody's saying, well, there's not enough cars at the auction. Can we find this? A Desa and car are going completely virtual and getting rid of their bricks and mortar? Um, you know, auctions, then you've also got car offer back lock cars. Um, SCP auctions all of that is becoming decentralized. So we're in the office and we're trying to do, We're out, what should we praise a car for? If we're not really looking at 60% of the data and as the auction volume is down 125,000 units per quarter. Carbon is selling 92,000 cars if you want. And they're doing it at $3800 a copy. So everyone can say, well, carbon is crazy, just like they said about Carmax, they're putting stupid money in these cars, well, they're still selling and then they're selling them profitably profitably because they're not they're not looking at everything like the way we've always looked at it. They're looking at historical data, they're looking at what can they sell the car for in their market and they're not all hooked on the same. And I'm not saying not to use the auto, but you should use multiple sources of data. Not just become reliant on one because then it's like the fleas and a jar analogy. Yeah. And all you do is jump Out 100 And it makes me think of also, mhm getting upset with a competitor or seeing a different way of doing things and then doing it that way, you know, like I'm sure or at least I would like to, I think that if we somehow invited the ceo of car Vonna or room to this...

...zoom session right now, he's not going to be a deck of a human. He's probably just like, hey, I'm a guy that saw a business opportunity and I went for it. But here we are to your point in a very regulated industry where so many things don't make any sense. Like why, why is shift digital still a thing? You know, I have no problems control. Yeah. And why do they have the amount of control that they do like their a monarch or or a governor general for crying out loud and nobody knows what they do except for make our lives more difficult. Why does this still exist? And how can we hope to evolve? So I think the frustration for me at least comes from the fact that it's like trying to turn the titanic around in a bathtub to see any changes happen. But meanwhile we are focusing our frustration at another group of individuals living the american dream that have removed obstacles in there. You know, I I've studied these competitors extensively and they're extremely intelligent and the way they go about doing business and I have copied carbon and rooms acquisition strategy. I have zero problem acquiring trades. We've got more trade than we know what to do with used cars And the reason we can wholesale some of them. To me really, if they just use carbon display, you don't need the auctions because you'll have more inventory than you know what to do with. Yeah, I think it's tremendous. But you can't play games and you can't hold back. And I had a conversation with my manager the other day, They were still working that deal. Let me talk to him. And I said, well we held back $500 on the trade and Carbonneau doesn't do that room, doesn't do that. Well, let's just see if we can get it for that. I go, how about, I'm just texting them the appraisal and I'm gonna $5,000. Well hold on. And I said because I'm gonna look at it like a bomb and groomed up do, first of all gonna be transparent and I'm just gonna just do a lot of reciprocity and I'm going to establish digital trust by putting just telling them what it is without any commitment from them. And I know that on that particular year make model that we average five times that when we retail it, the problem is we can't get enough of them So as many as humanly possible. I'm just going to just reach up like yeah, but that's 112%. I don't care what percentage it is. We sell them for this and we sell them in six days, whatever that percentages throw it out the window because 2018 Highlander limited and Limited Platinum's sell for this and they don't last long and on average 80% of the finance and if I just play the aggregate will win and we're gonna lose money on some. So what carbon? It doesn't care. Neither does amazon. Yeah. You know, the visual for me is this we tend to surrender and I'm I'm generally speaking here, but we tend to surrender all of our power to that, which we don't understand. So we...

...see Car Vonna, we see Vroom, we see shift, we see uh Carfax, we see anybody who's venturing into this space and we immediately resort to a turtle in his shell by saying, but they're a barbarian dude, you're a freaking Demi god, just because they're a barbarian, doesn't mean you can't be a barbarian too, and you just highlighted that. But why do we get, Oh, oh no, we're they're coming for me, dude, freaking fight back. Stand up. Don't do no different than any other time where you see in ancient history where why didn't they just revolt of Spartacus? You know, and you're you're looking at it, their dealers outnumber those retailers we're talking about if everybody ran their play, which it's going to be blasphemy. When I say this, it's a superior play to what we're running. It's transparent, it takes out all the inefficiencies. If we all did that, they would we would cut them off at the food supply and they would starve 100% and there's still time, there's still so much within our control. That's why I love this conversation with you man, it's all about taking control. You're not sitting here and scouring down and you're saying who they're barbarian, There are barbarians at the gate. Guess what? I'm a titan, I'm a barbarian. Just because they're a barbarian doesn't mean I don't last year's 100%. So I I love this conversation. Let me ask you as one final question for the, for the dealership listening today, what do you recommend they start working on immediately to start seeing this transformation take place? Okay. That you said no tough questions, so that's a good one. I would without trying to boil the ocean. I would work on, how do you securely take loan applications online? How do you appraise vehicles virtually. And I would mystery shop Carbonara, I bought a car from carbon and backed out on it at the last minute. But if you really want to understand the competitors go on that, that journey Right now, we're digitizing our rental car process and right now we're seeing a huge opportunity in terms of used car inventories. So we're gonna, we're over 100 and we're planning to get to 200 in terms of rental car fleet and then more and in doing that I'm shopping Avis Enterprise Hertz and they are also superior when it comes to online experience to us Pep boys and places like that with parts, but whatever process we want to listen to emulate, you know, carbon has the best appraisal process. So generally then, and what happens after you actually inquire about it to follow up that occurs declared of explanation of next steps? The frequently asked questions room as well. They're fantastic. The problem is,...

...is that after it goes off line and you're not dealing with a chat bot, It's a three hour whole time, which is their achilles heel. So when you exploit that so we can master the other stuff that they're mastering, which is, it's actually not that hard. It's hard for us to change your mindset and to change some of the legacy managers, which I'm one of them and many of my guys are, but they see it now and they're making more money than they could ever imagine doing that doing it that way and, and we're completely self sufficient. I haven't bought a car at the auction in two years. You know what, I don't choose to be afraid of this kind of stuff. I'm inspired by it. It excites me, it gives me something fun and new to go and investigate like I just took these notes securely securely take the loan application process. You know, figure that out online, Go on the competitor journey. Like why wouldn't you copy every last email? They send copy every because guess what guys, they did it to you. That's how they developed this whole process. That's how they came up with something better because they bought cars the traditional way before. But then like to your point, you said this earlier brian, which is um, you can't like, who are you going to call when you thought you were buying a symphony bar from the, from the vending machine. But it actually ended up being a Toblerone, you know, like who do you call? You know, there's no number on the vending machine and you really want to sit on the phone for three hours like dealers to your point have this ability to handle top to bottom front, back loyalty into ascension, generational wealth, long term relationships, dealerships have the control of that entire thing. And so I'm excited by the prospect of, of standing up against the barbarians at the gate and, and like you said, just knocking them off at their achilles heel. Absolutely man, this was a pleasure. I'm so glad you were able to join me on the podcast. How can those listening get in touch with you either. You can email me at beat Cramer at german dot com. I'm on linkedin. I'm on youtube. My daughter recently got me onto ticktock. So uh, ticktock as Cramer brian, twitter on Cramer brian. I never thought I'd see the day. Are you working on Tiktok? Not yet, but my birthday. So you never know your ideas for content. Oh my gosh, that's the clubhouse. Oh, I love it, man. Thanks so much for joining me on the podcast. Thanks appreciate it.

I'm Michel, Cirillo and you've been listening to the dealer Playbook podcast. If you haven't yet, please click the subscribe button wherever you're listening right now, leave a rating or review and share it with a colleague. If you're ready to make big changes in your life and career and want to connect with positive, nurturing automotive professionals, join my exclusive DPB pro community on facebook. That's where we share information, ideas and content that isn't shared anywhere else. I can't wait to meet you there. Thanks for listening.

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