The Dealer Playbook
The Dealer Playbook

Episode 529 · 1 month ago

Glenn Pasch: Should Car Dealers Cut Or Reallocate Marketing Budgets?


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Glenn Pasch is CEO of PCG Digital, an Inc 5000 agency that specializes in helping dealerships and businesses generate qualified shoppers. As a leader in digital marketing and leadership training, he’s been featured in CBT News, Dealer Marketing Magazine, Auto Success, and Automotive News.

He is also the host of the “You’re in Charge – Conversations That Spark Change” podcast. Co-author of two books including Selling Cars in the Digital Age and The Power of Connected Marketing. As well, he is an adjunct professor at Northwood University and is also a relatable international speaker.

In this Episode Glenn answers the question to if “dealers should really consider cutting their marketing budget?”

When you look over the last two years when things were going wonderfully, dealers were locked into the inaction of taking things for granted.They didn't wanna look at their marketing and dive in as deeply because while we're making money, it must be working. But Now that we're coming into a time period where rates are going up, inventory levels are starting to come back in some way.Used car prices are coming down, dealers now are starting to ask themselves the question “was my marketing really working? Or is it just because I had the inventory or did I not really look because things were So well?” it's more about reallocating based on what you're trying to accomplish, based on your manufacturer, and your inventory levels and what you're really trying to sell.

During economic downturns, corporations often curtail spending, particularly on marketing budgets. Right now, advertising agencies are struggling to stay afloat, and Google and Facebook are reporting substantially lower ad revenues as marketing spending dives with the business cycle (cyclical marketing). Yet, that is the modern-day analog of bleeding, a once-common treatment that now serves only to weaken patients' immune systems.

Companies that have bounced back most strongly from previous recessions usually did not cut their marketing spend, and in many cases actually increased it. But they did change what they were spending their marketing budget on and when to reflect the new context in which they operated. As Glenn says it’s more about reallocation more than cutting.

As an example, consider Reckitt Benckiser: The corporation started a campaign during the economic downturn that followed the 2008 stock market crisis to convince customers to keep buying its more expensive but higher-quality brands. Reckitt Benckiser increased their advertising spending by 25% as its competitors decreased theirs, resulting in 14% revenue growth and 8% profit growth, respectively, when most of its competitors reported 10% or greater profit declines. Rather than seeing advertising as a cost, they saw it as an investment.

During economic downturns, commercials need to address the difficulties people are having in their daily lives. Shoppers in a rough economy value brands that stand together for them. Successful brand advertising amid a recession not only injects comedy and passion, but also provides consumers with a response to the question, "How can we help?"

Typical marketing expenses might be quite substantial. This is the reason why many marketing budgets are so huge. However, there comes a point when it is appropriate to watch the budget or perhaps make some cuts. This means that a business must find ways to accomplish the same goals with fewer resources.

Those who continue to advertise during rougher or slower times will receive a larger share of the pie when the economy recovers... allowing their competitors (who drastically reduced their advertising efforts) to sweep up the advertising crumbs.

Adjust Your Marketing Strategy

Perhaps the most effective technique to continue to generate revenue is to reevaluate your marketing plan. Perhaps it's time to stop investing in pricey advertisements and reconsider your marketing strategy.If your marketing department is highly specialized, each division will want a larger share of the available funds. By having everyone on the marketing team work toward the same goals, resources may be allocated to have the most possible impact right now. For each campaign, you should only engage the marketing channels that will yield the best results.

It's time to switch to Flexdealer Inventory Marketing to increase your website's quality traffic while reducing your overall advertising costs. The Lift Kit platform is user-friendly and a great way to market your inventory to shoppers who are likely to purchase it. It is time to resume the momentum in order to capitalize on the sales potential in your area.

Listen to the full episode for insights and context from Glenn Pasch!

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Thanks, Glenn Pasch!

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The car business is rapidly changing, and modern car dealers are meeting the demand. I'm Michael Cirillo, and together we're going to explore what it takes to create a thriving dealership and life in the retail automotive industry. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with subject matter experts that are designed to help you grow. This is the dealer Playbook. I mean, what the DPB gang doesn't necessarily get to see is the fact that or we were scheduled to record right and it's ten twenty three now, and it's because we're just catching up. UM. I'm sitting down with Glen Pash, CEO of PCG Digital. UM. He's on the heels of another fantastic event, Modern Retailing Conference that they just held in Florida. They do two events annually. I went to the one earlier this year at time of recording in NAPA, which was phenomenal. Didn't get to attend Modern Retailing. That just happened, and I'm a little bit bummed about it. We're going to talk about that in a bit and I have a point blank question that I want to ask Glenn today. But for those of you that may not be familiar with Glenn. I don't know how that would be possible. Glenn is somebody who I can always, always always text or call and get sound, solid advice. He's he's one of those few that are in my my pinned text messages on my phone because I just know it's he always gives good, sound, reliable information, and so you know, it was a no brainer to invite him back onto the Dealer playbook. Glenn, thanks so much for joining me again. It is absolute honor any time, and I feel exactly the same way. We have called each other multiple times. I think a lot of times you and I feel...

...we've we've mentioned this to each other. We're we're on similar paths. You know, our companies are similar size. We every time I'm reaching out to you, you're saying, yeah, I just went through that, or vice versa, because we're on that similar path. So, yes, I'm honored to be here. Always a great time to chat with you. With a major slight difference though I have never been a stage actor, um, and you have all sorts of experience and I'm sure stories that at some point we need to pry out of you. Didn't you live in you acted in the UK, didn't you. I did. I lived in London for almost a year and uh, the acting group that I was with in New York City, the person who ran it went to school in London and so his teacher had a small group. So we went and we merged. So we had Americans and uh, you know, some English actors working on different types of show. So it was great, A lot of fun. Any singing, ye, yes, but more group singing. I have a loud voice, big voice, not the most pleasure. Yes, put me in the back and I'll fill and I can. I can do that. Don't put me in front the best. I love that. So I mean, for for those listening, I want to kind of get to the heart of the matter because here we are into another recession, and of course longtime listeners on the show. No, I'm not a fearmongerer. I am a Let's let's just rip the band aid off so we can talk about it objectively and move onto solutions. We know what happens as to marketing agency owners. We know what happens anytime there's a recession. The dealer wakes up on the wrong side of the bed. Uh, you know anything and that is the age old question. Now I feel like I need to something in my marketing budget. What...

...should I cut? How do I identify it? And what I want to ask you point blank is should dealers be cutting their marketing budget? No is the simplest answer reallocating resources. Yes, So to your point, it's not even just recession, because even if you look over the last two years when things were going wonderfully right, I think I think business owners are in this case dealerships and dealers. Whenever there's extremes on either end, it sort of locks you into inaction or taking things for granted. When things were good over these last few years, sometimes people didn't want to look at their marketing and dive in as deeply because while we're making money, it must be working. Um. Now that we're coming into a time period where rates are going up, UM, inventory levels are starting to come back in some way, use car prices are coming down, so there's outside forces that are at play. I think dealers now are starting to go, wait a minute, was my marketing really working or is it just because I had the inventory? Or did I not really look because things were going so well? So I think it's more about reallocating based on what you're trying to accomplish or based on your manufacturer uh, and your inventory levels and what you're really trying to sell. So reallocation more than cutting. It's interesting you phrase it that way. It makes me think of this UM. We were doing seminars for the UM Alberta Dealer Association years ago and we kind of put together this spreadsheet. It was a responsibility matrix and it basically helped them. It was a responsibility budget matrix and it would help them understand what their marketing budget was. But then also so...

...what did they actually spend? And it was funny how how oftentimes they're like, how did we overspend not realizing Oh, while you bought the box seat to the Oilers game and wrote that into your marketing budget and that wasn't planned for. You put you know, more decals on the or decals as they say, my parts, uh, and you didn't account for that, And it was it was interesting to see how many small little like death by a Thousand cuts things that were being spent and allocated to marketing budget without realizing it. But then because of those things, it added stress to the whole marketing ecosystem that they that they then started looking at the bigger expenditures and wondering if they should cut those on my website or my inventory manager or my you know, my SCM or s c O like those are the things that are most noticeable that that then therefore get the cut. You see something similar on your side, how do you remedy that? It? It? Really it's not something I think I can remedy. I think that's from a business owner, because certain dealers look at things differently. You know, to your point is what should be in my marketing budget or fall into marketing? Does my CRM fall into marketing? Maybe? You know, how how do I to your point is does a sponsorship fall into marketing? Does a donation fall into marketing? Does X? So every dealer is a little bit different. But once you have that all in, don't change it. Whatever it is, keep keep keep that as a static metric, because you know, CRM probably is not going to go up in price. You know some of these others may not. So you have to look at it as I try to box it out as saying these are fixed right, so I look at it for my own company, these are fixed expenses, wherever you want to put it, put into marketing. Find those are fixed, those aren't changing? Well,...

...what are the variable expenses? What are the levers I want to pull? Do I want to do this donation? Do I want to buy the box seat at the oiler game? Do I need to just this one month? I have to change banners and I need new signs or whatever it is. And then you can knock those out and saying these are one time versus every month. So again, one month you could look at it and say, my marketing budgets out of whack. Well, but when you really decode it, you could say, well, you know again going back to our company, well, this month we had to pay for a booth at an A D A. That's not something that's happening every month. So then when you do look at it and say, okay, these are my core marketing budget or or discretionary spend. So do I want to do a direct mail piece? Do I still want to do radio? Do I want to you know, do more in social media advertise? So that then becomes those are the controllable levers that you should be looking at on a month pay basis, quarterly basis versus all or nothing, because there's probably expenses in there that are swaying it that are one time expenses. I feel like, you know, it's also important to maybe have your key initiatives mapped out so that you can say, oh, well, if I am going to bring in this variable, I'm only going to bring it in if I can see a path to how it maps to one of the core focuses that we have. So for example, at our company, we have four that we're focused on right now. And to your point, which is really sound advice, is well, then I have my fixed expenditures that are always mapping. If I bring in variables, if I want to consider a new event or uh you know, speaking at a thing, or or running ads or whatever it might be, any of those out of the ordinary things that I'm doing, I have to be able to say, okay, guys, like which one does this map too?...

And if we can't find a path, we don't do it. It's a real simple like now we're not going to do that. Yeah. So I think the way I've explained it to some of my clients, I've been working with a few uh marketing managers that are in dealerships, and they've asked for some help, and I try to keep it very simple because in marketing we all can get pulled in a million different directions, and the marketing manager in a dealership usually has multiple roles beyond marketing. There was one gentleman I was working with and he was saying, I'm not sure if my marketing managers doing a good job. When I went through what their duties were, not only were they managing the marketing and the vendors for a lot of websites. Because even though they had uh you know, let's say they had five locations or three locations, well they had C D j R. They had all these multiple brands. But on top of that, this person also ran the BDC. So I said, whoa, that's way too much for one person to have. So what he asked me was, well, how can I how can I, meaning him, help my marketing manager be more organized? And I said, you're he's he is probably trying to do things horizontally, meaning a little bit on a lot of things. And I said, I like to work more vertically. What are, to your point, what are the projects that we're working on? And so I challenge them two ways. The first way would say, if that was the only thing that you had to do. Right, So, if you want to run a campaign for new cars, or you want to run a campaign for branding or whatever it is, he said, that's the only thing that you have to do. Nothing else. How would you do it? What tools would you use, what channels would you use? What would the cost be? I said, then you and if you start doing that for all of them, then you can see where you are in pacing for each of those. But instead of trying to do horizontally or try to do one thing across all The second thing... I said to them, there's three buckets that I like to focus on for marketing, especially for dealerships. One is evergreen. That's your branding. Why should I buy from Mike Cirillo, Mercedes Benz Right, that should always be happening. A little bit of your budget or a large percent, depending what your messaging is, but that has to always happen. Then the second bucket, is you touched on it previously, is what I call seasonal. Right, so if you have these mile posts throughout the year, we always have a big July four. Maybe your store doesn't. July four isn't really big or Black Friday or end of year or whatever it is, or you know, to your point is we always support the football or we always have a car show at whatever it is. Then you can start planning one for the extra variable course costs, but more importantly, you can plan ahead knowing I have to come there. Then the third bucket is targeted. Those are the things, like you were saying, we're running we need to focus on these new cars, we have to focus on service. We're running a tire campaign. We're running this campaign. And then you can say, okay, that's a cost associated with this, but here's the objective. But once you throw everything in those three buckets, then as you were saying before, everything my decisions can map to it to say, well, if we're gonna do target it, it's gonna cost this. Do we want to do it? Yes or no? But that shouldn't take away from I always still need to be doing the evergreen and it might tie into a seasonal and maybe you say, well I don't want to double up, or maybe I do. But this way, when you have those three buckets, it's easier for you as a manager or someone who's overseeing or is a dealer principal to ask questions about all those three buckets every single month, every quarter, and not everything is gonna map two leads. Right, we have a lead zombie issue. Not just in this industry, I think most industries. If you need to make... to survive and thrive, you're worried about how do I get more opportunities to sell? But in the context of automotive, it's like, but did it generate a lead? And so as you're talking about Evergreen, I think it's really important to note that we need to get off this did it produce a lead concept and start thinking about um, you know, like a like a tapestry isn't one thread, it's multiple threads combined that when you finally take a step back, you see what the tapestry design is. You know, the branding stuff may not be the most easy path to connect the dots between you did the Evergreen branding to a lead, But that's not to suggest that it didn't work, that it didn't help shape the consumers if they don't know who you are. Our team came up with this, not me, but they said, you can't get to the bottom of the funnel until you get into the top of the funnel, right, So you can't so the awareness of who you are. And so again if you think about just what you're saying is not everything is lead? Why because we don't want to give our information out. But if you look at just very simply for those listening, if you just ask, if you're the marketing manager or if you're a dealer listening to this, just ask your marketing person how many people came to our website this month, last month? How many people filled out a form? It's gonna be You're gonna say to yourself one percent, two percent, If you had five percent, you'd be doing cartwheels. So there's two things. One is why do they need to give you a name to use your tool to get a price? Like in this day and age, if you still have unlock any price, I have no idea. Why are we putting hurdles in front of people when I would rather have all of the people who clicked the button right? So then the second pieces, look how many people click the button to fill out the lead and then actually did You're only getting ten...

...percent of the people that clicked Why? Because it's frustrating. So all this to your point is why are we making it so hard to connect with us in the dealership. If I have a question, why do I have to wait for the answer. Nobody wants to wait nowadays for any answer. So why can't a chat pop up and talk to me? Why can't I get an answer? But to your point earlier is yes, it is this awareness. There's so many people on your site shopping, they want to do it in their own time. So this idea of leads, once you really unlock that and say I'm really only getting ten percent that's all. I'm getting ten percent leads off of my website or ten percent of the people who fell out a form or click that button that I want to talk to right right, like, let me have more conversations. Because everyone came that that was the only way that people judged your marketing was leads. And so what do people do? They design tricks and games to generate leads for you. Are they really interested people? Maybe? Probably not, But I would say if you had ten thousand people go to your website and you had a thousand people click those buttons, they're they're further down the funnel. They have a question. But now you're going you know what, Michael wait for a bit. When I'm ready, I'll call you. And people have moved on. They're gone nowadays. So that's forget even the marketing that's part of it. It's what is that user experience that you have on your website? Why are you making it so frustrating? But if I don't get my leads, I blame the marketers. But yet you're throwing a bazilion obstacles in front of people, or you're not answering their questions. But easy to blame the marketer. It's like if we were to remove ourselves from this context and put ourselves into any other context, Let's look at building a house. How do we measure the success of building a house? I mean, you could argue, well, it didn't fall over. I would argue that if you built the house and it didn't have a front door, you didn't build a very a very efficient house.

And what it makes me think of, you know, as I'm listening to you speak, is this concept of like some of your marketing, you need to categorize and say this is the door opener. The monetization effort begins once that door is open. So to your point, like they're already on your site, door open, get out of their way. But even I take it a step back there, they're they're on your street. They're driving by your house. That's a nice looking house. And they go onto your website and they're going, oh, they have some nice cars here and everything else like that. And then they drive away and leave. It's when they come back and then they go decide to go down the funnel to say, well, now all right, I have to think about a car. Now, let me go there. Then it's the knock on the door, and then are you going to open up and are we going to have a conversation about this? Or am I knocking on the door going can I have a question about something? And nobody answers the door or it takes an hour or two hours or a day. Do you really think that to your point, do you think that person is going to still be on your front porch when you open the door tomorrow. Probably it's like we get the ring doorbell and we can see them there, yes, but we never just let them in. We're just like, nah, you know, hey, what's your name, what's your address, what's your phone number? I'm gonna opening the door until I get that info, and again it's it's easy. And I get frustrated with some people sometimes at conferences when they're on stage making dealers feel stupid and and we're not. Uh, that's not anyone's goal, but it is this idea of we have to start thinking about the customers. Is it a good experience? Now? Again, some people would say this is the way we've done business, and this is the way it isn't. That's okay, But there are people that are moving away from that to make themselves available through..., through video whatever. When someone's there, they can start talking to them, and that's just going to be a better experience today. But they're playing the long game to say in three years that's the only way they want to do business. And if they run across your dealership website and it's still the forms, they're just gonna say, well, I feel like I'm going backwards. Nope, I'm gonna go back either to the place where their expectation is that everybody should be doing it this way. Right. Yeah. I appreciate the clarification because I think too often what creates the clash between vendor dealer instead of us all looking at each other as partners as we call out so in this context, to clarify even further, so we call out this strategy as stupid, it could be perceived that where we think the dealer is stupid for deploying that strategy, But that is not That is not the case at all. We think the strategy is stupid, that has nothing. I wouldn't even say it's stupid, because as soon as you throw the word stupid out, people get defensive. I don't get I'm just saying, don't get defensive. No, I would say, it's just having a conversation of things are evolving, that's all. You know. We now have the ability, and I think that's more the conversation we have listened four years ago, five years ago, no one we may not have even had the ability to really think through that and say, wow, this is something that's evolving one because well, it's not that there's no other option. I just don't think other outside of automotive, other industries and businesses were evolving at that pace where all of a sudden, oh I could click this button then talk to somebody right away. It was still clunky, right, You still had to type and wait for people to respond. Even much now, it's gotten to the point where we as as consumers expect things fast, expect things to get our answers right away. Um, that's all we do now is whenever we have a question...

...and we don't think, we type it into Google. But what is this? You know? And I want this now? And what do you mean? I can't so think about it. Even from Amazon, who everyone in the past, it was we got excited when they had two days shipping. We're like, oh my god, it's gonna get here in two days now. I was ordering something yesterday and they said, do you want it this afternoon? Okay, you know, so our expectations of speed and connectivity and so it's not stupid, it's just we're at a pivot where we have the opportunity to discuss should we change, could we evolve? Do we want to evolve our processes? And you could say no, and that's okay, but there are going to be repercussions down the line, because either you're going to have the of the you know, people who are doing it, they're going to have success eventually the manufacturers going to say you all have to do this, So why wouldn't you want to do it? At your own pace to ask questions and build your team and maybe be out ahead of it, because eventually the manufacturers are going to say, that's a better experience for my customers. Okay, everybody, you'll have to do it, and they may force something on you that you don't like, but you did have the opportunity to at least get started on your own terms. Maybe they do force a tool down, maybe they tell but you're already going, yeah, I've already thought this through, so I know how to do this. So that's where it is. It's not stupid, it's just are you someone who's constantly looking to evolve your processes and I think we're at a point where I think it has to happen, um, And why would you want to be left behind, Because there's probably someone in your market who is already doing it and you don't realize yet that it will start impacting your ability to do business because they're going to the fast and easier place. A perfect segue into some key takeaways from your event Modern Retailing Conference. You just had it at time of recording in...

November, you just got back um sold out. So congratulations first and foremost, I mean thank you that is not an easy thing to do. It's so the fact that you filled that room standing room only. But but like not other conference speaker who's excited and only has ten people in their room but says standing room only. Like I saw the pictures the evidence there was standing room only. I think that's that's tremendous. But it also speaks to the information that um, you and your brother are bringing to our industry. What were some of the key insights or things that had you going, Okay, yeah, this is a good conversation that we need more of this. What were some of those things that you took away from m R C Well, there were you know, just going on to this concept of removing forms from website. You know, we've talked about this for years, but now what was interesting was is you had a couple of people, a couple of speakers that have have had now have the data, like they removed forms two years ago, you know, a year and a half ago. So now they're saying, you're you know, versus I was doing a presentation with a group that I'm working on. But we're in the middle of it, like we're only three months in, so we wanted to share the you know, it's not all rosie. You know, sometimes it's conferences, like all these numbers are up there and everyone's like, wow, it's so great. We were talking about the good, the bad, and the ugly, and so it was a great bookend to be able to have data to say we're on now are people coming back after doing it the first time, expecting it and expecting it to be better? And then we also had that. So I think that was a great conversation. And because it was very tactical in all of these people had a lot of great takeaways. UH two was data that was...

...really big, not just data privacy as it was funny because right at the very last UH panel, we we saw the news come out that the FTC pushed those things out another six months of course, and then you know g A four got picked out for another years. Everyone's going, of course, who knows, but I think it's still had the idea of one data privacy, what do we have to do? How do we start sharing data between vendors without having personal information? So this idea of the c DP you know, you know the customer, you know, data platform, and you know, how do we clean up our data? You know, there was at our c XO UH summit with dealer groups that are ten plus before MRC. There was someone who's who has shared it and it said, you know, we went and cleaned up our data. They went to a large data you know, aggregator said here's our there. They're very large group, you know, like millions of records and probably were either dead old or collapse down to that single record. Right, So it's Michael Cirillo, Mike Cirillo, m Cerrillo, right, And all of a sudden, we're going, now you have three records, that's that one person. Let's collapse it down to have a super It's like continently history work exactly. But they then said, so the concept was for them was this isn't Yes, you could go in your d M S and CRM and what do you do with this clean data? But they were looking at at saying this is my clean marketing database. So moving forward, But then this is where the CDP and all of this idea of how do we keep that data updated and fresh? So if I send it out to someone and give it to you, right, how is how are you sending signals back to update that record? Right? So if it's to an email campaign, the results of the email blast, and did you open it? Did you click? Links? Now are attached to that that data right to your records. Same thing. Now all of a sudden,...

I have this database that's clear, but signals are coming back. So I started talking about that with some of the vendors out there that are dealing with this and building this for dealers. So that was great. Uh. And then I think one of the other topics that I thought was really fascinating was this idea of the manufacturer and dealer connection. So we had a panel with Southeast, Toyota and Toyota talking about smart Path and their vision of the tool that they're building. Uh. And then we also had a gentleman from Audie and so again both of them have gone down the down the path of we're not forcing one tool on you yet, right. So some would say that Stalantis was like, ah, here's a shop or Chevy or GM doing a shop click drive whether you like it or not, here's your tool or Nissan with at home, and so dealers were saying, you're pushing this on me. Now. What I loved about the gentleman from Audie said, we are all very focused on our customer experience, and we are working with all of our dealers to say that's the experience we want to get to. We are all going to get there. You are going to get there with us. But along the way, whether they're going to build the tool, I think they said down the road, they're working on it, but they said, here's the three or four tools you can use. So they basically went to the vendors of the digital retailing or those tools and would say, if your tool can't do this, you can't be in in the group that I'm going to recommend. Right so it became very clear that I'm going to put the guardrails up. You can use these four eight tools, whatever number it was to get to that experience. Now, eventually we may be building a tool and swapping it out, but in the meantime, very similar to what Toyota did, said we're not forcing smart Path because it's not built yet. Eventually it will They warned them it could be a year, could be two years,...

...could be three years. But along the route, it still was focused on how we're we're we're delivering that experience, and the gentleman from Southeast Toyota that that the one layered on top of this was the responsibility of the manufacturer or in their case, that tier I want to call it Southeast Toyotas, you know, a group of helping implement this. What they're realizing is we can tell you what we want, we can show you what you can give you the tool, but if we're not willing to commit to help you implement this, then shame on us. This is from the MANUFACTU Shame on us that we we shouldn't then turn around and go on, Michael, you're you're horrible, You're not performed because we didn't help. And I think that's just a great uh that that spread across the whole conference. No matter what we're talking about is implementation is not a one time thing. That implementation and training. If you want those results, you have to be there with them, out of the classroom, out of the email, out of the video, in there into their environment to say here's how we do it. So those were some of the main things that were talked about. UM, don't rub it in at all because I could be there. That sounds amazing, Um Glenn, how can those listening learn more about you your events? Pcg Um and connect with you great, thank you so Uh for me, I'm on social media, uh just Glenn Pash with two ends. Linked in is where I hang out a lot for business, so there, I'm on Twitter a lot. So those are two places you can reach out to me. PCG Digital dot Com is for the agency, and then if you're looking for our events or consulting, that would be under the BPE or Brian Pash Enterprises. So just go to Brian b r I A n pass dot com and you can get access to all of those. And and like you said, we'll be at n A d A in January and then our conference, the one... the spring in May is moving out of NAPA and moving to Austin, so we're expecting to be able to even grow that a little bit larger as well. A lot of folks have said, oh, I can't wait to go to Texas, so I'm very excited about that as well. Amazing. I'm Michael Cirillo, and you've been listening to the Dealer Playbook podcast. If you haven't yet, please click the subscribe button wherever you're listening right now, leave a rating or review and share it with a colleague. Thanks for listening,.

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