The Dealer Playbook
The Dealer Playbook

Episode 498 ยท 1 month ago

Glenn Pasch: Carvana - Love Them Or Hate Them? You Should Thank Them!

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Glenn Pasch is the CEO of PCG Digital, author, speaker, and one of the most reputable voices in the retail automotive industry when it comes to marketing management, leadership, and growth. In light of the recent Carvana announcements, there have been two narratives throughout the industry. Either you love them or you hate them.

In this episode of the Dealer Playbook, Michael and Glenn focus more on the expectations of customers that Carvana aimed to fix. Regardless of your feelings toward them as a company, there is much to observe and learn that can be directly applied to your dealership operations.

Noteworthy topics from this episode:

01:59 - Over the last 2 years (through the pandemic), we've had to make a lot of changes in the automotive industry in how we interacted with car shoppers/buyers. A lot of it did depend on where you were located in the United States. I'm in New Jersey and we were totally on lockdown. So you could not go into a dealership. Parts of California, Florida, and parts of Georgia. It didn't matter. You could still go into the dealership and somewhat transact in the same manner that you had previously.

02:52 - The transaction sped up, and dealers were willing to do more over the phone, by email, and via digital retailing tools. While it's easy to throw stones at companies like Carvana, the reality is that they helped facilitate the direction that car buyers were moving already. They just paid attention and tried to provide an experience to match. Regardless of feelings toward them, their actions created urgency for many dealerships to look deeply at their existing customer experience process and make tweaks.

06:24 - The question is whether we are willing to constantly move forward by examining what we want our businesses to be? We have a tendency to make changes based on external factors. For example, what is the dealer down the street doing? What is Bob at my 20 groups doing? The magic happens when we decide what we want the customer to feel when working with us and work backward internally from there.

07:42 - You can't knock Carvana for trying to market to customer pain points. Sure they are struggling right now, but their whole premise was going out and marketing that they provide a different, updated experience. The only reason to knock that is if you're so set in your ways that you're unwilling to make changes for yourself.

09:11 - Dealers have everything they need to succeed at the game right now. Michael shares about UBER and how they re-processed existing tools and resources to provide a fresh, updated customer experience. The same option is available to dealers who are willing to think outside the box.

11:45 - It's important to make a process that is scalable and repeatable.

13:54 - Nothing is more scaleable than having no process at all. It just scales to nothing. But doing nothing is very repeatable.

14:09 - the problem is that there are some in the retail auto industry who are focused on the short term when in reality, we need to be playing more of the long game.

16:46 - Google's most recent customer data explains that car shoppers today (Gen Z/Millenial) are more likely to be loyal to the experience they receive over the product sold.

Listen to the full episode for even more insights and context about providing a killer customer car shopping/buying experience.

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Thanks, Glenn Pasch

If you enjoyed this conversation with Kevin Frye, please let them know by clicking on the links below and sending him a message.

  1. Click here to thank Glenn Pasch on LinkedIn
  2. Click here to let Michael know about your number one takeaway from this conversation

Get Your Google vehicle adds up and running fast with flex dealercom. The car business is rapidly changing and modern car dealers are meeting the demand. I'm Michael Cirillo and together we're going to explore what it takes to create a thriving dealership and life in the retail automotive industry. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with subject matter experts that are designed to help you grow. This is the dealer playbook. All right, gangs. So just a few weeks ago I'm sitting in Glen Lundy's office in Kentucky observing a debate about is it people, or is it the marketing, or is it the Carvanas of the world? Like, who's causing us all this grief? I mean you got individuals like Ali Rita, who is selling a gazillion. Don't fact check the number, but he's selling a crap ton of vehicles, all on relationship, not really active on social and then you've got the other side of the debate, which is like, but our marketing sucks, and what about our website? and Are we saying the right thing on social or what do we post? None other person better to join me than the CEO of PCG digital good pallid dpb alum blend pash thanks so much for joining me on the dealer playbook podcast. My absolute pleasure. I cannot wait to spend some time chatting with you, one of my favorite people in the world, that's you. Glad shucks. Now I'm blushing. For those that are listening, only I'm blushing. Yes, well, you know, I always enjoy chatting with you because you and I tend to follow a similar vein or thought process. However, you always, at least in my estimation, have a much more well thought out thought process than mine, but we at least kind of move in the same direction, which is why does any of this matter if we don't have a foundation in place? Like who cares what Carvana is doing if you have no desire to change anything internally for your own store? Who Cares if your competitor has better marketing but doesn't have a process to match? So I want to get into this with you. What should we be thinking about? And I mean by the way, I know you're speaking at digital dealer and that's coming up this does this tie into what you're going to be talking about? It digital dealer. Yeah, a little bit. I think that what I'm speaking about it digital dealer, is this idea of over the past two years, two and a half years now, we had to make a lot of changes in the automotive industry of how we interacted with our customers. A lot of it did depend on where you were located in the United States. I'm in New Jersey and we were totally on lockdown. So you could not go into a dealership. Now, arts of California, Florida, parts of Georgia, it...

...didn't matter. You could still go into the dealership and somewhat transact in the same manner that you had previously. Right, but there were there were changes that you had to make. Some of them you were forced to make whether you liked it or not, but actually it was better for the customer. And now you're thinking on the other side of this, as we are back to a whatever sense of normalcy you want to say. Have we gone backwards? Did we forget all of those good things that happen for the customer? The transaction sped up, you were willing to do more over the phone, over email, over a if you had a digital retailing tool or piece of technology. You you had to and it worked and you made money, sometimes more money. And now, all of a sudden, are you thinking, well, that's great, now I that's a foundation I can move forward on, or is it Oh, thank God, it's over, I'm going back to what I used to do. So and and to your point, I think we tend to throw stones at other people, be at the Carbanas or the dealer down the street or whatever it is. Ultimately, you pose the the absolute best question is, are you going to change? Does that really matter? Are you willing to learn from Carbana? Forget what what you think of them? What are they doing? And do you want to apply some of that to Your Business? And if you do, okay, if you don't, then why is it even taking up any space in your mind if you're not going to look at it, inspected and or potentially change something? HMM, you said it a couple of times and it makes me think. You said kind of this return to normal, and I was thinking about this the other day. What even is normal anymore like do and do I want to return to it? Or have we passed this this threshold where by things like the new normal is now where? And what I mean by that is dealers are going to have less inventory. Maybe this was the catalyst for smaller floor plans or, you know, more of an emphasis on service departments or whatever it might be. Do I really am I latching on too much to the idea of what I like? Do we all just become our parents over covid you're the way you Breg Glenn. That's what I want, you know, none of these young gen Z or whatever do I want to do? I want to return to that, or should I be embracing the new norm? Well, I think it's it's a great conversation piece if someone really wants to sit down for a moment and think about it, because every generation, where the previous generation, has that moment of things, of change and back in my day and you know we're all of that. But the reality is we have moved forward. We're always moving forward. So this, you know, right this last two years, we had change. You could go back...

...to when stock market crashed in two thousand or previously, or two thousand and eight or whatever it was. You could say, Oh my God, that changed, interest rates were up and we had to deal with that at one time every every era, every you know, you can look at any time frame and say that was great, that was bad, we change. The question really is what's happening in front of us, meaning your point. Maybe this is when the manufacturer says we don't need ground stock of six thousand, Ninety a hundred, twenty days. Thirty is good enough, because then maybe I don't have to incentivize, you know, stair step programs to move metal, and dealers are saying, well, I have to lose money on the front end, but if I get if I just sell my cars, I get money from the manufacturer, so I win, win all this and everyone says, maybe we don't have to do that anymore, or let's look at less staffing. Do we need all of the people? Do we need more people in our in our dealership, you know where we actually understaffed and selling in spite of ourselves. So everything is an evolution. We're constantly moving forward. The question really is, are you willing to look at everything through the Lens of what you want Your Business to be? We have a tendency to make changes or think we should make changes based on external influences. The dealer down the streets doing x, I should do x, Bob At my twenty group does Xi right that, instead of really saying what do I want my customers to feel when they're done, and work backwards? That's what I think you were if you work backwards, then you always have that anchor that all decisions can go through. Yeah, interesting. To that point, it makes me think about the challenge we have in this industry, the the Shiny Object Syndrome or the BUZZWORD, you know whatever, and how we are still putting a lot of faith hoping that something else will solve problems for us. But to your point, what do I want the customer to feel and work backwards from there. And that's what Uber did, that's what are BMB did, that's what Tesla has done, probably when Anna did, Carvana did. Yeah, and they marketed to all those pain points and frustrations that people had and said yes, I don't like that, and they offered something different, or the perception of something different. Because is every Carbana customer or room customer happy? No, they're struggling. But they their whole premise was going out to market to say we're different, we want you to feel this way. So what do we have to do? And so so, when you work backwards and you say here's how I want them to feel. Okay, this is what we have to do. My my employees have to do this to make...

...them feel that way. And then we build a process so we can repeat it into it all the time, and then we go find the people that fit the process to deliver, and then we get the tech to help the customer and help my day right there, all those decisions are should I do so? Bob Has a great idea. He uses x product and you say, well, that sounds great, and then you come back and he's avoidment. What do I really need to change something? If I do, is it an addition? Is it a replacement? What is it right? But you have this thought well thought out plan that you can constantly look at. And then I think you're it's easier to be adaptable to these changes because you have this anchor. Now again, you're not maybe saying Lalala, fingers in your ears, this is the only way it is, but at least you have something to compare it to when having a discussion about change. Yeah, let's use Uber. I mean, I don't want everyone to hate the podcast that we've said Carvana ten times in the last five minutes right. But look, if you did that, you listening? If you had done what they did, yes, what you'd be hated right now by the others. You like the Bulls eye would be on your back. But it makes me think about well, what did they all do then? Because you're talking, you're talking about this internal process which we need to get to. But the first thing that comes to my mind is, you know, if you look at Uber or Air BNB, they didn't create something new. They repackaged many existing ass sets into a modern, much more scalable process. They didn't invent the Internet, they didn't invent smartphones, they didn't invent payment processing, they didn't invent ride sharing, taxis, on and on and on maps. They assembled all of those already existing assets into something that made much more sense to the audience that they were paying attention to and that's available to everybody. And it comes down to process. We would hate Uber Right now, and it probably a similar way that Carvan has taken a lot of heat if their process sucked. They come Onif you don't the piece level full, and that's the that's right. That what and it's a perfect analogy because what they did was whatever the the the instigation or where that idea started or formulated. But it was a frustration point for someone. Someone was frustrated and said, why can't this be better? Why can't this be easier? Why is this always a struggle? And I don't like it, but I have to there has to be a better way, right. That's the conversation that started. And then then, to your point is they went out and said, okay, what do I need to solve this, or what does solving it look in my mind, or what's my wish list of things will what if I could just type in my phone and somebody showed up? Right, didn't have to wait? Great. Then you say, well, great, well, we have owns,...

...don't I don't need to invent a phone. What else? What? What tools, like the avengers? What do we have to assemble to how whole proble? Somebody's got teenage kids. Oh, yes, but you're right, yeah, makes absolute sense, and so that all has to be met with process. To your point, I mean, none of this makes sense if you can't sustain it. It has to be repeatable and that's the point is that I've I've shared this story before. I was in the restaurant industry for a long time and I worked this was way back in the S, before you know, smartphones and social media. So you relied on word of mouth and you relied on a review from the New York Times in New York City to validate this was a great place to go. Right. But the owner would say it doesn't matter if we can't deliver it every day because there are so many places to get a great steak or great sea food. So he said, you know, we have to deliver that experience that surrounds the food. Yes, the food has to be good, but he said it's what's around it and we have to work hard that every time someone comes here we give them that same experience or it's constantly getting better. But it's it's repeatable so that if they come back a second time, a third time, afore time, or recommend someone to come in, the person goes. You were right, that was a great experience. Versus, are you kidding me? That was horrible. Don't ever recommend restaurants. So that idea of how do we do that for our dealership? How can we create this experience? It's around the vehicle, because the vehicle is the vehicle, but around it. How can we take from other industries things that made us happy when we got our reservation from a hotel or we bought something or we went somewhere and it was a great experience? How do we go? Well, what did they do and can I do it here to help my customers feel that same way about interacting with my dealership? You know, it makes me think of the experience I had purchasing our hound, a palisade. Love the vehicle. What I mean like they've thought of everything for families without us having to suffer the shame of driving what I call the Bradley as Al Vehicle, Aka Minivan. Right, they thought of everything. Smooth vehicle, entertainment throughout, just like just the process of purchasing that vehicle sucked so bad. HMM, so so bad. Nothing is more repeatable than not having a process to begin with. Nothing stands out more than delivering on an exceptional process and moving into this day and age. I love your thoughts, but I mean we can't afford to have a bad process. We can't afford to have a scalable, piss poor process. Well, I'll push back a little bit, because they're potentially can be some miss guided thought around this. I agree with you. But...

...there will be some people who are focused on very short term. I sold the car, that's it. They're not coming back for three or four or five years. The danger is you don't know at any given time if this person has a following of thousands and thousands of people or as very influential in your market, that one bad review may could potentially influence. But you know, why would you only want to sell one car, versus retaining that person long term? So I they don't think of anyone else to service or car by a vehicle from that. You know, in a person's mind you become their dentist, their doctor. You know you don't change your dentists every three years and less. Of course there's a major you just go to your dentist and less right. So. So I I can understand sometimes why the bad processes or they rely so much on personality of the Salesperson, where the you know that that individual gives does a great job. Versus, I can put most people into this process and I train them and they can deliver a great experience. Yes, those people who are just exceptional, they just have a knack, well, they'll be excellent but I want the bulk of my people to deliver a great experience to my people. That takes work and that is something that should be repeatable because it's even if it's nut. Let's take a take look at it a little differently. Forget the customer for a moment. Forget the customer. Who wants to be frustrated as a worker, as an employee, coming in every day and I don't know what's right or what's wrong, or it changes if Michael's running the dealership today as the general manager, Lens doing it today because Glenn does it differently than or, on the flip side, if I'm a manager and I have twelve salespeople and everybody does it differently, how the hell am I going to keep track of twelve different processes? How can I get them better at their perform? That, to me, is a very frustrating work environment. So again, we tend to think about it always for the customer, but we should also be thinking about it for our employees to create an environment where they understand it every day. What my job is not to figure it out. It just come in, played a game. There's going to be somebody watching me, helping me succeed, but I know what I'm doing. Nobody's going to work in a place where every day it's like spin the wheel and let's see what changes you made. Me think of some data that Google shared about how today's car shoppers specific to I want to say Gen Z and particular. Maybe some gray area with millennial but if you look at these two segments that have a higher likelihood of lifetime value than some of it, the aging segments, they were pointing out how these shoppers are less likely to be loyal to a particular brand and more loyal...

...to an experience. Absolutely, I think we all are right. I think we all are, even even the aging segment. You know, if you think about it, I go to you, go to a certain restaurant over and over and over again. If I came to you, know you came here, I'm going to take you to a restaurant that the experience is great and I and it's dependable and I think we like that. Yes, there are some people that you know are loyal to a brand, but I don't think that's I don't think that really changes. I think there's a I think there's always a small group of people that are loyal to the brand until you disappoint them. I think more people. I think we love to segment people and say they're this or they're more than that. That's like saying old millennials are lazy or Gen Z is Lazy. You know what, I bet you there's tons of Gen z people who get offended at that because they are hard working and they don't want to be, you know, seen as lazy. So I think everybody wants a good experience. I don't I don't think anybody would be is loyal to a brand and saying yeah, I'm going to keep that brand and have a horrible experience every single time because I'm loyal to the brand. I think. I don't know, I'm older, I I go for experience. So well, you look good, thank you, but you know, it's funny actually, though, because I think about my grandparents, Italian immigrants could barely speak English like well, and by barely speak English, I didn't if I heard my name, I would look at them and it's right, kind of a thing, right, but they shopped religiously at sears and that could be perceived as loyalty to the brand or the company. But I think it really just had to do with the experience. They knew it, other Italians that work there that could speak to them and their native language. And and so to your point, you're right, I think. Isn't that an interesting caution that we should have when looking at data, to understand what the actual driver of the loyalty is, versus a blanket statement like what I just almost let everyone astray by saying that rolost likely to. No, I don't think it's leaven his right. I know you know me, though I'm telling about it, but but think about it. Sears back in the day. Back in the day we shopped it sears because it was dependable, good, solid products for a reasonable price. HMM. But again, it didn't matter if you had if you went in there and salespeople were rude, you'd go find somewhere else. Why? There were other options to go to, but it was always see. And then what happened with sears is the quality went down, the staffing and service went down and people said okay, I'm out, I don't care. I've been and you probably heard people said, well, I shopped it sears for years and they've Gone Down Hill. So I'm no longer going because of that. So I think all of that...

...and I and going back to that idea of process. If you're seen as a dealership, that creates a good buying experience, not shopping experience, right, because shopping's fun, test driving, clicking the buttons, looking at the car. But once I go, that's what I want if there are ways that you can get me out of there faster and easier, with less friction, less time in between for whatever. And again there's always extreme. Someone who's listening is going to say, well, what about the person with the bad credit? Or doesn't not talking about that? I focus on the middle sixty all the time. Build your process for the Middle Sixty. You're going to have ten people that are, you know, speed out because they have great credit, everything, they bring everything in that and they're out. And then you have the other bottom twenty percent where it's a struggle first time. They didn't know, they forgot something. But I want to the middle sixty people, sixty percent of people. Can we speed up that process? Where's that friction? And now there's technology to do that, there's strategies to do that, and that's the experience. So if people are sharing, that's that was easy that was easy. I liked it. They took care of me, they listen to me right, just like the food was great, the service was great, all of that that you talked about in a restaurant. Why can't we have that so that way other people come in and say, well, Graat if this was easy, because you're comparing it to maybe maybe a frustrating experience a last time, where someone goes not to go through this again and someone says no, go to Michael Store. He's great. Asked for Michael, he'll take care of you, and you're going on with that hope of experience because the car either you buying the same car because you like that brand, where you read about that car, you did some research about the car. Now it's like, okay, I got to go deal with people. Why can't we have people excited about going to the dealership with the same enthusiasm as I can't wait to go to this restaurant and have dinner because I know the experience around, the food is going to be great, I'm going to have a great time. We just don't. Yeah, and there's nothing worse. It's like Murphy's law. There's nothing worse than referring somebody to a restaurant and then them having a crappy experience of that restaurant because it makes you feel like an idiot and then you're less likely to make any referrals about anything ever again because you're like, I'm man, every time I do, they always like me out the fright. See, but whatever. And again the you have to understand. Sometimes again, people will perceive these conversations of you know, they don't understand. Any of dealers are the majority of dealers do a great job and their focus is doing a great job and they want to take care of the customers. It's a business. One of my clients said it the best, you know, running a dealership, general manager, high level. It's a IT'S A it's a business of distractions. There's always something going on, something that you have to attend to. But the best...

...operators are the ones that have the processes in place where it is an optional it is an optional based on Michael's here today blends here tomorrow and things change. Personality can change, but the process shouldn't change because that builds consistency of comfort for the employees who then can deliver it that comfort to the customer. Right so that's really the job of when you're dealing with this is how do we just refine our process is constantly looking at that. As we said, you know people and then processes in yes, your product, but it's the performance piece of looking back and inspecting and saying, are we delivering on what we thought? How can we tweak it? How can we refine it? How can we keep getting better at it over and over and over again? And that just takes work and that's what makes the great dealerships at what's makes consistency in terms of experience, and I think all dealers want it. It's just not easy and it's takes work and it's not pretty, it's not sexy and and it's not going to happen in a day. It takes I'm it could take years for you to really get it all set and then it runs. But people don't want to hear that sometimes because they're looking for either a quick way or quick fix or whatever it is it you listen you for you've had your business for how long? This is my twenty year so with flex deal or how long is it twenty since so six? Okay, so think about it. You and I talked about this not too long ago. You finally feel like it's running. Over the last few years you've got it to a point where it's running consistently the way you want and it feels like you can you know you're coaching and the people are there and they're right. They know what they're doing, because it took all so think about that. Years of yeah, frustration, trying, testing, falling, whatever. Now you feel open in to a pillow. Exactly, exactly. We've all had those. You know, it's it's feeling as if, okay, now it's right, now I can really start stepping on the gas and running right. That takes time and it takes work. And again there's there's so much pressure and dealerships with thirty day sales cycles involving all of the right and again I do not want anyone to sit here and think, oh, it's easy, Glenn saying that. I know, I talk to deal it is not running the business. I run mine too. It's not easy, but you have to at least you have to think that the process is your structure. The process is gives people confidence to be able to run because I know what I'm doing, I know what to expect. There's nothing this customer could ask me that I don't have any answer to. I know what to do. I can...

...get this done. I know who to go to. That's that allows you to be comfortable and grounded versus stressed, because, again, no one wants to work in a stressful environment, not right dress, from busy M or competitive I'm talking about stress of every day. I don't know what the Hell I'm doing, no one's here to help me and I'm just hope I'm not going to get yelled at. Right not a good place, which is real, and I've known people in that situation and they're a basket case. HMM. You know, it makes me think of your if the objective is long term business being be in business a long time, you're going to exist anyways. So really what it comes down to is your level of willingness and belief that doing what you're talking about, Glen, is in fact the right thing to do. It. Do I believe that this is the right thing to do? If, yes, I'm going to be in business anyways and I'm planning on being in business anyways, I might as well start working on this or iterating upon it. If I don't believe it's the right thing to do and I just want to keep trying to buy my way out of operational inefficiency, like Dan are Pall Dan more talks about. Then Salute Mozzel tough. That's your deal, but it's going to be a painful road. But but I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you're planning on being in business and existing any way, you might as well do what you believe in and what is the right thing to do. Well, really the bottom line for me. Yeah, I think that, and it can be sometimes hard because depending on where you came from in your journey, meaning I may have worked for somebody that was chaotic and that's what I think is right. Right. So that's my that's the my model of what I worked with. You know, you could say that. You know, you could have family. Right, if parents picker and argue and whatever it is, someone growing up will say, well, that's what a married couple all we should do. Right. So it's it is what you're what your frame of reference is, but there are more and more successful dealers that you could at least ask the question of saying, is there a better way? And I think going back to what you were we talked about earlier. If we're always moving forward, are you a perennial student? Are you constantly asking the questions, even just to confirm that what you're doing is correct for you? That's as valuable as trying to think, well, do I have to go out and find something nude? No, just keep asking questions of how can I refine this? Could we get better at this? COULD WE MAKE THIS SMOOTHER? Could we trim here? How? What is my retention for what do right? What motivates my my employees right? You know, five years ago may not today or here. Michael, you've worked for me for seven years. Well,...

...what motivated you when you came here may not motivate you now because you're married and have kids and you need something different than I just want to make money. So all of it. But I think ultimately the best performers in any industry are always asking questions and looking and just always looking at what they're doing through the eye of can we get better at it? Can we get make it easier, faster, smoother for everyone involved? Man, very thought provoking stuff, which is always the case when your chat with someone like Glenn Pash Man. How can those listen and get in touch with you. You can find me in a couple places, usually twitter, linkedin or where I hang out the most, and it's just Glenn Pash my name, PCG digitalcom is our website. You One PASHCOM is also my website. Or you can also listen to my podcast, the you're in charge now what podcast? You can find me there as well, specifically episode what one and fifty? I think you were one. You we are definitely want while no, I think you were. You were the first guest. I think I could opening one by myself and said I think I need people. So yes, you were definitely the first and then you came on again and we have to have you on in the future as well well. Tell me, just before we close, tell me a little bit about DMSC. When is it? How do we get involved and how can those listening take advantage? Thank you. Yeah, the Digital Marketing Strategies conference is in May. At this is may right now, may twenty two through the twenty four. Some tickets still are available, so please make sure you come. It is in it's a phenomenal experience because it's not a conference per se, with in the fact that I would say like it's a trade show or whatever else. It's more the fact that it is a threeday conversation where it's very intimate, very small, and what we end up doing is we will talk to people. We will I have no idea what's beeping here. I'm going to say is Domino's calling you back to verify or order. I have no idea why this is even talking or whatever, but anyway, will throw my phone into garbage in a minute. So, anyway, it's a threeday conversation, so you have access to the speakers, because we've all been at conference is where the speakers up there we may be able to grab them for one minute afterwards and say thank you, this was great. You can see them over the course of three days having dinner, you know, sitting in other workshops having conversation. So it's much more thoughtful, much more networking, and and the vendors who are there, they're the owners or the creators of the product, so that's great, as well as the dealers and we're we're always trying to tackle themes that are other people may or may not be talking about. So it's a lot of fun. It's a great location map of Alley California. Can't go wrong. They're so...

...thank you for asking. So again, digital marketing strategies dot org. To go get a ticket. Please make sure you come, and Michael's going to be here. He's going to be there too. So Lam hey and at time of recording, month of May, I will be at this upcoming one. But if they, if they go to I mean this is something you do every year, right, yes, every year in usually in May, and then in the fall we do another conference. It is now called the modern retailing conference. It used to be called the automotive analytics and attribution summit, but we thought that was being wordy. So now, I know people used to call it the ASS conference. of We said we didn't have to change the name. So now modern retailing conference is going to cover a lot more aspects of the dealership experience beyond just marketing, the HR sales process, to creative to definitely marketing, but also, you know, these other areas, fixed ops that a lot of times don't get the attention they need at these types of the mets. Fantastic. So for those of you listening in the year twenty thirty three, don't Fret. You can go to both of those websites, you will see and I just click the Change Act your head and something that I'll just pop up visually in front of you, because we'll all be in the metaverse by then. Yes, yeah, an, you know we're in the metaverse right now, like we're just not avatars of ourselves, but that's a different type of different joe for a different day. Folk, I'm Michael Cirillo and you've been listening to the dealer playbook podcast. If you haven't yet, please click the subscribe button wherever you're listening right now, leave a rating or review and share it with a colleague. Thanks for listening.

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