The Dealer Playbook
The Dealer Playbook

Episode · 7 years ago

Jim Ziegler: The Secret to Selling More in F&I

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Our Guest:

 

Jim "The Alpha Dawg" Ziegler is as close as it comes to a "living legend" as you can get. 

 

Jim is the founder of the "Internet Sales Battle Plan" and the "Ziegler Super Conference" two of the automotive industries top improvement workshops. He also is the founder of Ziegler Super Systems, his leading dealer consulting company. 

 

Jim Ziegler is one of the automotive industries leading experts when it comes to F&I has written many articles on the topic and presented the topic in many live workshops. Jim is responsible for massive growth in dealerships across the country and a big part of that increase is from the dealers F&I department. 

 

Preview Of This Session:

 

- The biggest mistakes made in F&I today.

 - Creative & effective word tracks to sell more F&I.

 - Tips to being more successful in F&I 

 

Links/Resources:

 Ziegler Super Systems

http://zieglersupersystems.com/

 Ziegler's Sales Manager Super Conference 

http://www.zieglersuperconference.com/

 Connect with the "Aphla Dawg" on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/jamesaziegler?fref=ts

 

Be sure to get subscribed to "The Dealer Playbook" and sound off in the comment section below and let us know whats going on out there! 

You're listening to the deeer playbookpodcast episode, thirty, with Jim the Alphadog Ziggler here we go you'r dialed into the dealer, playbookpodcast, where it's all about winning autotealer strategies that deliverproven results, and now your hosts Robert Weisman and Michael Serilla, hey there. Thank you so much forlistening to the dealer, playbook podcast, where every single week we'resitting down with the WHO's who, in and out of the automotive industry, wethank you for stop of Mi, My name 's Michael Sirillo, I'm here with RobertWeisman how's it going buddy. It is going excellent! Michael! Thank you.Can you believe that it has taken us this long, Toron deviou with the AlpaDog Yeah? Well, you know we e. The dog is a good friend of ours and you know like it like. We told him thatwe wanted to. You know, build some builds to get a good push and you knowget a get a good audience built up before we bring on someone such ashisself. You know what and- and you said it I mean there- he's such a greatfriend- we're so glad to call him a friend, but we couldn't think ofanybody better inside of the industry to talk from a more qualified positionabout finance and insurance, and the process is that you can be using toreally kick things up a notch to increase profitability at thedealership level, then Jim Zigler, absolutely yeah, I mean firm finance isone of the most important parts in a dealership. You know the PR it's youknow: good PRT, great margins for most dealers on these products and it's avery you know, they're handling all the final and expediting like all e the thelegal parts of a deal. So I mean it's, you know you're going to love you're,going to love what Jim has to say, but without further do let's jump into oursit down with Jim the Alpha Dog Zigler. Let's do it...

...all right. We are so excited to besitting down with the man himself, the Alpha Dog, Jim zigler, Jim. Thank youso much for being with us today. I wouldn't miss it. For anything, youknow what it's we're extremely grateful, I'm speaking for Robert and myself tojust you know, have you as a friend, you know so fun a few weeks back beingwith you and debby and Boston and touring around and just enjoying yourcompany and hearing so many stories. We were just talking about how, if there'sone guy on the call right now that has more Mike experience than us andwhoever else is podcasting combined. It's the Alpha Dog ohgod. I was on radio most of my adultlife. Before I got in the car business and then, once you left radio went intothe car business, you went on to become a record holding FNI expert. Well Yeah, some of the records I have still stand.Some of an lons is broken, but at the time I held those records at per retailunit. I was in the first dealership in the United States to do a a milliondollars in one month, ind finance well Ni mo one thouand, nine hundren andeighty four. What kind of volume dog is somewhere by place like that?Doing that, like Exan, you know unit count, that's doing a million just infinance that was Dirand Dir Valvo in the day, and it's kind of interestingto believe of avolvo dealership would be the first dealership in the countryto hit the million dollar mark. But we did, and I wasn't in charge- I wasn'tthe the department head. I was one of the managers, but there were fiveextremely talented managers. It was may of eighty four. We had a millionseventy three thousand Richard dyre. That place was cam a lot.We took that dealership from forty units a month to eight hundred andfifty units a month in a year, ha...

...sfucks, okay, so h! This is perfectbecause you know like we said and for those listening and they know wehaven't, had an Fni show yet, and we couldn't think of anybody better to diginto this topic than you. Let me ask you when, when it comes to finance andinsurance, and you taking this dealership from forty units to eighthundred someodd units, what were some of the? Can you give us an idea of someof the processes that you put into place to achieve that? The the ideathat you can get deals bought is more important than your skill at selling tothe customer. It's more important to be able to talkthe banks into financing these people with the least conditions and and andthe most wide open financing that that was my talent. That's what I what I didbest in my retail experience Ike, I invented something called t a consumer,counseling interviewer, I believe, F and I still teach it laughin high schools. I want the FNDI manager to get in frontof the distressed credit customer early. What I see in dealerships today is that they work these deals to death, evenafter they've identified. These people have poor credit. Why do you keepnegotiating with somebody once you realize they've got poor credit, theycontinue to throw discounts and negotiate with them. No, I want the thefinance manager and I call him the financial manager. I don't want to becalled the business manager. I met the business manager in these dealerships.That's a a man or a woman in the back office wit a bad disposition, I'm notthe USIENS MTYOU know I'm the financial manager. That sounds like Merrill Lynchor something you know. I mean pour power. Props are important and theability to get in front of the customer and to do the consumer creditcounceling interview, because it's all about feelings, JackieCooper was a friend of mine, Jackie, said Jim, it's about feelings, and ifyou can explain to people why the rates...

...hire what why we'd like them to buythese protection optionsyou're much better off? What was the I mean? What was theprocess for getting somebody intoere into this credit or Consumer CreditCouncil interview? I mean? Was it okay? You just kind of they came in the door,they piked their interest. They were intrigued and you said: Hey. I've gotsome questions for you. How did you lead into this- and this is this afterthe WORKSHW? I'm sorry Jim- is this after, like they'vethey agreed to someterms and submitted Crre, you know Oaon, we, this is before they buy the car orAfr after they bought the. Whenever we identify bad credit, whatever stage of the process, theSalesmenton s O, we got really bad credit here or even marginally bad credit. I wantthe Salles Department to stop the deal. I will go to the Salesperson's Office Hi folks. My name is Jims Ziggler, I'mgeneral financial manager here at the dealership, and I see you're buying anautomobile and from these folks I never want the Fni manager to act like yourpart of the sales department. Werei see you're buying a car fromthese folks. You know- and I just stop by why, while you'reworking aut the deal to find out, how do you intend to pay for the car you'regoing to be financing with my sources? Do you intend to bring bring a check infrom your own bank, your own Credit Union? Are you going to pay cash? Oh No!We're going to use your sources fantastic, I'm glad to have yourbusiness and I've got your credit. Bear report right here and I'd like to askyou a couple questions about your credit before I make a decision on theApprova of your loan keeping control. But did you hear thatlast senence before I make a decision on the approval of your loan yeah, somany effani managers well we'll see if I can get forward credit to approve itnow you gave away all your power yeah. I love that I approved the loan and...

I don't know about Canada, but in theUS the let the lender and the dealer areone and the same on the contract. It's a holder and due course document. Sotechnically I am the lender as ha dealer until I get a bank to buy thatexisting loan from me. So technically I do approve alone, based on theknowledge that I have a lender. I can SEBV it to so. When I tell him I approved alone and- and I said N, I tell the people-Listen, I'm approving Youre aloane. I want to tell you that in advance, butI'm not the final decision maker my associates at Ou. I financial can stillturn you down. They can overrule me, I'm not the final decision maker, I'mapproving this one and that puts the consumer squarely in inmy Corner Oo he's approving Halone, but he's got to get it past. His associatesaid ally my associates at for credit. That is a stress I were tracking, iswhy my course is so so different. The words you say to the customer are yourtool box and I have invented these very uniqueword. Tracks are not taught in any other EFFANI school and the results mypeople are getting R incredible. So that's that's the the consumercritic counseling interview, Michaeln Robert, is for two thingsnumber one to get information to get the deal approved, Yeah Thee, becauseI'm going to end up on the telephone with ha lender. Even though I submittitthrough deal or trackor one of the the services, I I'm going to end up,probably getting a condition or turn down, and I'm going to end up on atelephone talking to the credit supervisor at Allior. You Know FordCredit or whatever Chrysler yeah. So when I'm on the phone with thesupervisor, I need ammunition, I need justification extenuating circumstancesof them. I need some type of an argument to build up why this lungshould be approved, I'm getting that...

...from the consumer and then I'm looking for other credit.They have this not into bureau. So that's what this this interviews about,but the other part of it is positive intimidation. Now that that sounds like a doublenegative, yea, yeah, okay, you can intimidate somebody withoutscaring them or humiliating, because today you know, we used to call peoplewith distress, credit, bad names, bogs, drex, roaches, credit criminals. Get MeDunge bat bandits Bwe trying to be a little more socialy acceptable.Nowadays, these people are credit, challenged, equity, impaired. You know trying to Putlo posit well onething about people, woulh distress, credit, they know who they are they'vereceive male about it right, they've, seen they've seen tow trucks skokingaround their driveways. They know who they are. You know not not a big secretto him. They've got poor credit right, so you know, but today we have bwas bogs with attitudes. Yep Yep I mean they used to be humboard,have a little humility. Now they they think it's a constitutional right, notto pay your bills and get inother loan. So you have to take that attitude offof them and that's where the positive intimidation comes in. I'm approvingyour loan behave yourself. I didn't buy all that stuff. You didn't pay for Yehit Wa. It was not my fault and the credit interview pretty wellestablishes that you know there's there's four thingsthat the lenders looking for. They all start with a sea thee looking forcapacity, collateral, creditability and character, and you've got to buildthose things when you're. In this interview I've got to find reasons asthis loan should be approved. So this could really be a massive gateway for dealerships tosell more vehicles, because this credit,...

...counseling interview helps themidentify how qualified you know not just from a financial position but fromjust you know, just from various avenues, how qualified that individualis to own that vehicle and how reliable they'll be in paying the bill and andall those sorts of things. So it's really like you said it's positiveintimidation, which I love, but it's also you keepin control of this and notnot handing over any amount of control to the consumer. When I say I approvealone, they set up and pay attention, they're all of a sudden on your sideexactly, and I I'm approving youre alone, but I still have to review myapproval of my associates at the bank. Who could overroot me? I'm not. Thefinal decision maker help me to help you it's a whole philosophy that goes withit. It's it's incredible how how well this worse,what Di they say during the interview? Well, I had a repossession because Iwas in a hospital. Oh I understand. Do I have yourpermission to tell my associats at to bank, you be person, ame creditinsurance to protect this investment? Oh my car kept breaking down. Oh Iunderstand. Do I have your permission to tell my associates at the bankyou'll be purchasing us a service agreement to protect this this vehicle?What do I have to take that nocer? It is not required, it's not mandatory,but I strongly suggest you take it. You see I'm never going to lie, cheatsneak or deceive to sell finance, there's a line, and I will walk rightup to it, but I will never step over it right. Well and- and I mean you know the way- you're wording- I mean yourward tracks position you from a point where I mean I don't know about you,Robert, but I don't get the impression that you're walking close to the lineyou're just maintaining control over the conversation andhelping them in a much more positive...

...way understand the status of theirsituation. It's like hey. You know, you have bad credit for legitimatereason. You know that you didn't pay bills or you didn't whatever youneglected to pay bills, you have really poor credit for whatever the reason is,but you're trying to buy a forty thousand or fifty thousand dollarvehicle. This. This method kind of puts the dealer back in the driver. Se,where, like you said, they're, not having to feel the need to sash pricesand offer discounts and all let me see what what can be done or let me see ifthis will work or if I can get you approved, you stay in the driver seat,you you manage the conversation, but in a way that you know dispels the Grubby Car GuyMyth, which is that were against you and we're just trying to take you. It'slike no we're legitimately trying to educate you and we're doing that from aposition of power. Well, see, that's the thing everything about Fni is apower posture. The Way your office looks the way you dress when I'm in adealership, and I'm doing if and I I am always suited up- I mean I'm wearing a tie, a suit, and Idon't care if the rest of the dealerships wearing polo shirts andshorts. I am not one of them. I am a banker. Bankers do not wear Polo shirts. If you can faltow, I want to bedifferent than the sales department. I want to be totally divorced from whothey are. I'm not one of them, I'm something else and that when it come in my office,there's no other paperwork of visible. They can't that you know my officelooks like a banker's office very important. It doesn't look likesome third grate clerk with papers and stacked up everywhere and when you get alone from a bank, youdon't see another another customers loan sitting on the table right. No,you know you look at some of some of the deaerships. They put. They put theFni people in the worst Dingyes darkass dungeon in the world, and I'm going toquit it when I went to Benner Ford into caterGeorge, my first big Fani job back in...

...the S I was dating my wife, then we hadtgotten married yet and I was promoted. Defani manager and I went in thatoffice and I couldn't believe- and so her and I went in there on aSunday and it had this black padeling on the wall with staples in thefaneling, where the guy stapled stuff up a little piece of paper hanging outthe staples and there was a beam over the desk and he had all these racesheets stapl on the beam where the cut in us and one of one leg at the deskwas bricks and the computer was filthy, W H with finger grieves and the phoneheadt had had ear smudge on it. You know it Isi going that off Owa and wehad Shag carpeting and they smoked inside the building in those days and I'm going what Oh man dingy dark, dungeon. Well, theowner, Brat greer came in on a Monday and he did a double take when he walkedby the office, because that that Brown, black ugly panelling was in thedumpster and she and I had wallpapered the office and my carpet on the floor.My Desk, my blonde desk in my my blund cabnitry behind it and living room typelighting, a sofa and comfortable chairs for the consumer. I had had wallhanging to Hib paintings on the wall. He couldn't believe it. He was so embarrassed. He had remodelhis own office so so there's the aspect of maintaining control from theconversational standpoint, but also conditioning their. What do you want tocall it like emotional response by changing the atmosphere of your youroffice? Everything in my life is power posture. You know the it's powerful, it'sintense ever everything about it. You know I set up the atmosphere of when acustomer comes in. I give the husband a pen, I give the wife a pen because Idon't want them locking eyes. We were...

...signing documents, the shows up front here and I do a menu presentation and I have some word tracks that arejust incredible in the EF Ani schools that I do like one of the things ThefanI people bump into Robert. You probably seen this any number of times. Oh, Idon't want any of that stuff. I know you're selling stuff here. I don't wantany of that. My answer. That is no problem, sir, butI am required by law to explain to explain the coveragees to you, becauseyou're going to have to sign waivers releases and old, harmless agreementsen those items that you decline and agree to self ensure interesting selfand sure scares the hell out of Hem. When I tell ther people go, I'mselfensuring, absolutely Youk, an automobiles fifteen thousand high techcomponent parts and yourself ensuring on all of that,if you don't get the partional labor agreement, okay, so l, let me ask you this: Whenyou, when you go into a dealership- and you know, they've brought you on to to-I guess- fix things or set up process and protocols to help them take theirbusiness to the next level. What I mean, what are the demands? I know Iknow you mentioned that the first thing that you have to absolutely have- Ithink we were talking about this in Boston. Is You need the ability to firepeople? Does that mean you're going into the dealership to make big changeswhen they're needed? Well? Not Really, and I I don't- need the ability to firepeople, I need the ability for the Deaer to be willing to fire people gotit. You Fal what I'm saying M I need to have authority and I'Lland I'll havemanagers some and usually I don't have that problem very seldom. The managersare usually totally on board with me. Generally, it's the sales persons thatrebell against he the processes right.

The managers welcome it because theysee the profitability, but once in a while, I have measured well. This isthe way we like to do it well, what you don't think they brought me herebecause you're doing a good job. Andwhat are what are some of the. I guess standard kind of typical issues thatyou see when you go into dealerships well, theguards to finance my yeah yeah,just in regards to what we're talking about when you go into a dealership andyou're there to fix their FNI process help them. You know improve whatthey're doing. What's what are you just kind of seeing across the board issomething that just kind of each dealership has in common that theycould do right now to improve and Antop to add to that Jym. The role of theFinance Youro answer your question yeah because Tha, I think, a lot of timesthat I've seen that that sometimes they play the roles kind of like. SometimesI feel like the I've seen where the desk manager actually is submitting forapprovals, and you know the one calling the bank and then in the end, the FI.You know the Fni Guy He's just pretty much spinning paperwork and at Tro youknow selling product well see, that's not the right structure. Right, that'swrong! First of all, the F Andi manager hasmore skills, more schools, more specialized training than anybody inthe dealership, except the technicians of fix tocars. Most sales managers learned their jobby watching their predecessor, who was fired. Yeapareo. I've got one of the very fewsales manager schools out there, there's dozens of efinih schools and weare the we are the highest persquarinch Prophet Center in the dealership and Omotal most sales managers areeating. The last Brown shriveld leaves off the trees before they're suck downin the tar pits. Most customers to day...

...are buying cars based on finance, notbased on price. The payment is more important than thetrade value or the price. So to answer your question, Michael, the ninety ninepercent of the time, the sales management is dominating the FFNImanagement and if I were to buy the dealershipright now, I would tell you all my managers would have equal power,including the ability to terminate a salesperson and ive bet people. So my my aff and Imanager couldn't handle that with them. Why did you hire a whimp? You know yeah.Excuse me, you know I want we're a profhit center,we're not we're not clerks you're, not the sales manager. Secretary you're,certainly not answerable to salespersons. You are a manager andmanager is a position of dignity, authority, respect I will be respected.I will have authority and I will not be the sales managers secretary or clerkfor the sales manager at then. You know I've been to more schools,more skills. No, I won't put up with that and if, if I'm a dealer, I'm goingto have a general sales manager and below that level, just going to bemanagers all with equal authority responsibility now I think I might havegotten this from you. I believe in some of your training previously N, when Iwas still in the dealership, and I would always do my introduction to thethe finance director or whomever as like. This is like the top guy and thedealership. You know like this or right that you know Mr Miscustomer, here's.You Know Sam he's, the director of financier its number one top guy herein the store. What is the you know? What's the proper Turno I be, you knowlike when introducing to finance and then also like how important is thesalesperson kind of prepping or you know, geting or talking about theproducts like? Should the salesperson be discussing and and backing up any ofthe products that he's about to? You know they're about to embark on oncethey go in into the FNI office, and I...

...don' I don't want them to you. Don'twant O Tato, I don't want them to even mention the existence of the products they're not prepared to sell them,because, if cosomy it's considers because o. How much is that now not the sales person are going toprobably ball park, a figure and and kind of Wy. I don't need that and thenthey get in the FFANI office and I start to present TA product. I look. Ialready told that other guy, I don't want that and so you're selling againstthat yeah. It increases your margin of error exactly and by the way RobertI've probably already met these people ot. I tell ff Andi managers to meet thecustomer on the floor. Do Not meet him for the first time in combat okay andthen what what's the best? How do you Wa Jes Igo? I go out there and I saidHi you, Mr Mrs Jakins Hi, I'm Jims, Zicgei'm, gemal financial manger hereat the dealership I'll, be processing all your legal paperwork, making allyour financial disclosures and signing wavers and releases and hold harmlessdocuments on items that you reject and agree to selfensure it's going to takeabout forty five minutes. I have you in here just a moment, so I've alreadyanswered all their questions. I I tell if, and I manageers to have aone long winded sentence like that, because the custers go, the custoer askthree questions: Who are you? What are we going to do? How long is this goingto take? So I answer all three of thosequestions in one sentence. Who Am I? What am I going to do? How long is thisgoing to take so now now they have no more questions and I'll. Have you inthere just a moment and by that time all the all the salesperson say: Hey this, Mr Ziggler and financial manager. You met him erlierand very seldom. Do I ever have a customer in my office that I didn'tcome out and meet first. That does happen and I want a veryshort introduction. If they haven't met me, this is mister zigger he's ourfinancial manager he'll, make all your legal disclosures and show youall yourfinancial options. Bam Gone,...

...that's Yep! I love it. It's such a it'ssuch a streamlined process. It creates such aan incredible experience. It gets the consumer to know more than one personduring the process of purchasing a vehicle. You know breaks the ice. Ilove what you said about the atmosphere and controlling the conversation Jym,just in keeping with time here. You know we want to be able to turn it overto you. How can our listeners get in touch with you andtell us a little bit about some of the events that you have coming up? Okay,I've got the sales management superconference coming up in Atlanta inNovember, at the eleven twelve half of Down Tho thirteenth. It's fifteenexperts on stage, and you spoken that Avect Yourself, MichaelHum. It's an incredible event. I'm I'm doing six hours of that event, myselfWhil I'mclud, including how to work a car deal. I'm will be doing an hour anda half of f an I. In that event, that t e the website is Zeglers Ze, Iegl I before zingler super conferencecom and then we're doing an event in LongIsland, New York- and I I have a date set for early December and it's going to be an FFNI seminar. TwoDayf and I seminar with me doing the entire thing sounds awesome and I mean, if youhaven't figured it out already. Jim is so dialed in when it comes to Fandiwhen it comes to creating processes that increase your profitability thathelp your entire team move more metal products and services. So youdefinitely want to check out zigler Super Conference. Remember it's! Ibefore Ezie Gler Super Conference and then staytuned for the details earlyDecember for this F NDI Ceminar. You absolutely need to check that outbecause if I know Jim- and I do, he is going to lay out the blueprint for youto absolutely take your dealership to...

...the next level Jim. Can we connect withyou on social media anytime? I'm an Facebook, twitter Youtube Ob JamesAzegler, facebookcom forward Slah James, a Ziggler ofm get over thousand peopleday hit that page love it Jim. Thank you so much for being with us today. Welook forward to especially having you back on the show sometime in the futuredeath. Tak Car get. Thank you, Mr Alpedog. We appreciate it take care ofguys Picke and there you have it just like that,our friend and still the record holder in F and I jim the Alpha Dog Zigler,Michael Woul d. You think I mean you said it. Can you believe I mean amillion in one month. Yeah! That's that's like to me. That's like, and Ilove what he said he's like. We built Cam a lot at that dealership. I mean hetook him from forty units like eight hundred and fifty something yeah. Ontop of that, I loved you know just some of the things that he said. He talked alot about creating an atmosphere that is conducive to purchasing vehicles,making people feel special, but also retaining you know all of the controlover that or not just not not. I don't want tosay keeping control but like just not handing over any power, and you knowwhat I mean and and and speaking from a position of power and putting thatperception. You know in those simple word tracks it's. You know it buildsthe perception in the consumers eyes of the importance of this individual. Sothen your easily get all of their attention as well. So I think it reallyhelps them. You know, move through the process, make sure they get everythingdone properly, because nothing can spoil CSI and returnbit repeat businesswhen you have to keep bringing somebody...

...back in because they forgot the signcertain document yeah things like that which I've seen that multiple multipletimes and it ends up hurting everybody involved. So I mean great thingscovered as word tracks. There I mean I used to use some of his sales relatedonce when I was on the floor and it works because sales are not missed bydollars. It's words wrong things at the wrong time, spoil it. That's what hesaid right. Those word tracks that you, you have that's your tool box, thatthat's how you convey the right message to the right people at the right time,get them qualified for the right vehicle that you know meets their needsand budget and all that kind of stuff and help you sell more products andservices and, of course, vehicles so check it out triple wdot the dealerplaybookcom, where we will link to all of the resources that Jim has mentioned,including links to the conferences in events that he has coming up. The onein Atlanta, zigler super conferencecom and then, of course, he's got an FNIconference coming up where it's him dropping some power bombs. Him alone, Ithink, is what he said Y. So we're going to link to those in the shownotes.Don't forget to subscribe, were on Itunes, Stitche, radio and now soundcloud. And of course we would love your feedback. We thrive on it, the good,bad and ugly. If you have topic ideas or guests that you lik tohear them, wewant them all. But thank you so much for listening in and we'll talk to younext UN till next time.

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