The Dealer Playbook
The Dealer Playbook

Episode 492 · 8 months ago

Stacey Hanke: Who Do You Influence?


Stacey Hanke is the author of "Influence Redefined... Be the Leader You Were Meant to Be," and is on a mission to equip leaders within organizations to communicate with confidence, presence, and authenticity. She is a world-renowned keynote speaker and has been featured in Forbes, The New York Times, and SmartMoney, to name a few.

What we discuss in this episode:

  • The power of influence is that it shapes our daily thoughts and actions. From the media and politicians to leaders of organizations and coworkers. Each of us is a leader and a person of influence. The question is what we will do with our influence.
  • Influence is felt through how we communicate.
  • Often, leaders have less influence than they think, which can be a tough pill to swallow. Here are some indicators that you don't have the influence you think: Longer than normal meetings, less productivity around execution, overthinking, and so on.
  • You have to experience yourself through the eyes and ears of your listeners. When you watch yourself, it's easier to understand what can be missing from your method of communication.
  • Social media engagement should not be the only indicator of how much influence we have. At some point, it will be more important to talk with people face-to-face. It will be about conveying your message clearly so that the receiver buys in.
  • Listening is a major element of communication. If you haven't learned to listen, you are missing out on the critical element of expanding your influence.
  • Like playing an instrument requires the musician to hear the instrument (i.e. feedback), people of influence are required to hear the feedback of those around them in order to understand if they have the influence they think.
  • Listen to the full episode for even more great insights!

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Thanks, Stacey Hanke

If you enjoyed this conversation with Stacey Hanke, please let them know by clicking on the links below and sending him a message.

The car business is rapidly changing and modern car dealers are meeting the demand. I'm Michael Cirillo and together we're going to explore what it takes to create a thriving dealership and life in the retail automotive industry. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with subject matter experts that are designed to help you grow. This is the dealer playbook. Hey Gang, welcome to this episode of the dealer playbook podcast. You know, I've been thinking a lot lately, and by lately I rarely made the last couple of years, about the power of influence and and more particularly, how influence from a variety of sources, whether it's family, politicians, the media, automakers consumers, can shape our daily decisions and our daily actions. You know, it should come as no surprise the negative stigma associated with the retail auto industry still exists, and for good reason, if we're being honest. There's still so much ignorance, there's still so much negative thought processes and and antiquated systems and antiquated ways of doing business that creates friction between dealer and consumer, between vendor and dealer, between automaker and dealer and the speed at which the world is evolving and the way that consumers are wanting to engage with auto dealers is a point of influence. It's the influence that they have back on us and the the negative stigma exists because of all of the antiquated ways of doing things that creates friction. But I think about the influence that leaders can have for their dealership teams, I think about the influence that co workers can have on other coworkers and I think of the influence that a dealership can have in the community with which it operates, with which its employees reside. Influence is a very, very interesting thing and I mean it should come as no surprise to any of us that we've been heavily influenced publicly over the last couple of years, almost to the degree that nobody's even trying to hide corruption anymore. And this is not a political episode at all. But all of that to just suggest that influence is a very, very interesting and fascinating thing and you know me here at the dealer playbook, it's all about having a positive influence and influence that encourages and entices whoever is within the sound of my voice to do good, and I'm not talking about... a will Smith Way and you're going to go and slap somebody. I just had to throw that in with this. Isn't about will smith either. It's about influence, it's about stewardship. I'm so delighted to be joined by world renowned author and keynote speaker and consultant and coach, Stacy Hunky, and she's going to share with us all about the power of influence. Stacy, thanks so much for joining me here on the dealer playbook podcast. You know it's my pleasure. I appreciate it. Thanks, Michael. Now, this is something and when I do say I'm particularly excited, it is very genuine because this is a topic communication, especially communicating with influence. This is something I talked to my own team members about frequently, in that I say things along the lines of when you feel like you're overcommunicating, you are probably just barely communicating enough. I feel like we in the day of digital you know, social media and all these things, we tend to overshare the wrong things and not communicate effectively the things that are actually of importance, and so I want to turn this over to you, first of all, how how did this all come about for you? How did how did this topic become something that you're passionate about? Can you know? Like anyone else, you probably have heard some my stories. You tend to fall into it. I have a background in communication. That's what I went to college for an I always wanted to be the next Katie currk, but apparently that did not happen because we are sitting here live today. But I did a lot of roles in large corporations. I was always put in the training and development role and one of the conversations that constantly came up, no matter if I was teaching time management, productivity, whatever the hot topic was at the time. Michael, I realized, well, doesn't even matter how well they are, how Hollige they are as a leader, how smart they are as a leader, if they can't communicate their knowledge, none of this training even matters. Sure, and I kept falling upon that and I started to realize it's not presentation skills. I went through plenty of presentation skills in my day, probably like a lot of our listeners, where they teach you how to stand up in front of a group and present. What I started to realize was it's more about how do you present yourself every day? How do people experience you, whether you're over the phone, whether you're doing skype audio like we are right now, whether you're O A, conversations all the way up to the high stakes sport room. It's really about how do people experience you in the moment, what reputation, consistent or not, that you create and then what you leave behind, and all of that is truly how I define what influence is and what it's really not. And you know, that's really where my team and I were our hot spot is is really helping individuals become more aware of how much influence they have rather than what they believe to be true. Now,...

...when it comes to something like this, because this fascinates me, I mean when, when it comes to something like this, how do you convey the tangible impact of what? Where am I going with us? I guess you know a lot of people. Here's a perfect example. So I just finished a speaking tour. Was Delighted to meet a gentleman by the name of Doug Lip. You used to be the head of training for Disney University. Phenomenal Guy, great presentation. Some of the feedback and, interestingly enough, feedback from those who did not attend the event said, Oh, experience, intangibles, that sounds super expensive. How do you convey the tangible impact or positive impact that your message can have for those that are perhaps stuck in that perpetual catch twenty two of how do I make my business butt or Hooko? How come my team doesn't buy in? How could you know what I mean, because it seems like this kind of thing plagues us. How does how it does? How do you convey the importance of this in a way that leaders can understand? Yeah, I'm going to take it to two levels, because once I meet with them, then it's easy, once I've convinced them to even work with my team and I. But prior which is my world, a lot of sales pitches, which, Michael, I know you can totally understand. That's the hardest part, right, because you're hitting on something very important our main kind. How ourly years, they've been around the block. It's not their first Rodeo of communicating, and a lot of times what I'll hear leaders say, well, I do this all the time. I got to this position for a reason. How I convince them of they may not have as much influence as they believe that they have. I give a lot of examples and I'll say things like do you have meetings that just are way too long? How many times do you meet to figure out why you met? And there's a lot of chuckle. There's a lot of agreement that when I give specific examples. or You ever notice you've got problems with perhaps your direct executive team because they're not taking the action you always want them to take? And I circle back to well, it might not be your team and might not be the people running the meeting, it may be you right and all I are. I'll ask them do you want? Do you want your sales team to be selling more? Do you want more time in your day? Because so much of that is about communicating with brevity, communicating a message. If, in you're in sales, that truly your listeners can adapt to that. You're resonating with what they want, not with the other fifty people you just sold to. So that that's going to be the first I've got to give real, tangible examples that tap into how can I say that person time and money in a day? Convince them that that's possible through how they communicate. Then when I meet with them. Michael, and if you said you've seen some of our videos, you know that my reputation is a big believer. No matter what Worl you're in, you have to experience yourself through the eyes and news of your listeners. Right once I start video and audiotaping...

...our clients, no matter what position or title they have. Right there is the cell right there is the belief of okay, now that I'm watching myself as if someone was watching me communicate or listening to me communicate, I'm realizing what's not working. It didn't feel that way when I was having a conversation. Now that I'm on the other side of that conversation, I see it, I get it, and that's where the buy and starts. Without that, without the video and audio taping, I think talking about influence and communicating effectively is a lot of hot air because it sounds so common sense. Right. The challenge it's not common practice, it's it's almost it reminds me of the the football team that watches their videos so that they can really see for themselves how they're performing for the next game. Yes, exactly that I mean it's like any athlete, it's like any professional actor, actress, anyone that is in a profession that takes muscle memory. Those are examples. They're good because of the amount of time they practice. I take that into corporate world. Is Yes, we're communicating all the time. I challenge, though, your listeners really think through? Do you really think about it, though? Do you really give thought to well, how can I practice how I communicate, both verbally and nonverbally, to make sure I'm constantly improving and I am constantly being the best that I can be, no matter who I'm trying to influence? Sure didn't. Now, and this brings to my mind, you said something about, you know, being in the moment with them and kind of, you know, experiencing the conversation. Now you know them, kind of experiencing their own communication through there, through a different Lens. Do you think like do you think social media has gotten in the way of effective communication in the sense that everybody's kind of become narcissistic in that the only reason I would ever go to social media is to share something about I joke about this on episodes of the show where I say, you know, social media is the place where we share the best parts of our fake lives. Yes, I'm going to steal that from you. I love that. Has that gotten in the way of effective communication because everybody so used to not listening or not? I guess they're just so comfortable seeing themselves in the fake light that they shed themselves upon them it gets in the way of effective communication or influence. Michael, I think that's a whole other topic for us. Right here's what I think it where I tap into that when I talk about influencing Monday to Monday, I really believe it has to be consistent in order for people to truly see you as someone who's influential. That means however you experience me. Now I better make sure that every single post I throw out there, whether it's facebook, twitter, Linkedin, whatever it might be, I need to be consistent. I need to be protecting my personal brand, which really is my reputation, to make sure that how people experience me online or how they...

...experience my team, my company online is how they experience us when they get a chance to interact like we're doing today right. But I find what happens and it ties. That's why I was so much like your comment, Michael. I don't do it. It's almost as if we believe we hide, we can hide behind the facebook post, the email message, where there's been so many situations where if I'm meeting a potential client for the first time via email, they reach out to us, I'm reading their email and, based on how it's written and how it comes across, my instinct is thinking, I don't know if I want to work with this person. They come across like they're going to be difficult, high maintenance, and that's so not my deal. Yet I'll meet with them over the phone, Michael, and I'm thinking, wow, you are really cool. I really want a partner with you. Sure, and if there's a message to your listeners, it's the power, the power of so so media, that we have so many opportunities now to connect, engage, to get our message out there. The element we need to be careful with is it is a billboard and Time Square. Be careful what you tos us out there. Yeah, well, and you see evidences of this. I mean I can think of a handful of companies who's leader is on social media as the positive, motivational, you know, helpful this and that, however, the experience between that leader in their employees, where the rubber meets the road, is much different and they don't see that side of them. And and very quickly unveils the ploy in which that that individual has used social media to get immediate gain by putting on a facade. And then you also, I see this a lot in our industry and I'm sure it's in other verticals as well. You know, the supposed elitist trainers, success coaches who mix their positivity and their motivation with simultaneous complaints about the line they stood up at target where somewhat you know, and and and so to point about consistency, I see how that's that makes so much sense. You almost have to take personal inventory and determine what is your own what is your platform, and who are you and what message do you want to convey? And also who are who are you actually like? Who's the genuine, authentic you know Michael Sorilla, what is he actually believe in? Or the Stacy Hunky or whoever it might be, or else it all falls apart in a moment on social media. That's it, and it only takes once for that to happen. You probably have seen Simon Senex video, maybe it came out last year, it's been a while, where he talks about millennials,...

...and I think it's true, though, for any generation. He talks about how it is such a high, a literally an endorphin rush, to see who likes your facebook post, how many likes to how quickly do you get a text message response? And I'm smiling as I'm saying this because we're all guilty of it. Sure, and it's to take that to be careful to not let that be the definition of defining how much influence you have. That's just an element to compliment the face to face interactions that you have with people. Sure, I truly believe no matter what generation that we are all from, at some point you've got to be able to talk to people facetoface, and those that can do a better job of it than others, I also believe, will always get farther ahead in life, both with the relationships that surround them and with their professional life and their personal life. Right, it will, and you know I love I'm on your website right now, stacy honkey inkcom forward slash book. I love the headline. You may be surprised to discover you're not as influential as you think you are. How does you know? In the context of everything we're talking about, where do I start? I'm a leader, you know, I love own. Then his name skips my mind. Author of five levels of leadership. Jay Call Art? Yes, yeah, okay, so or no, John C Maxwell. Thank yes, there it is. I knew it was there and left and it came back to me. So, John C Maxwell. He talks about, you know, the five walls levels of leadership. The first level kind of being the the the positional leader. So, Hey, you just got your promotion. You're now the the team lead, or your the department manager or something like that, and I love what he says and it makes me think of what your headline here is. You may be surprised to discover you're not as influential as you think you are. He says receiving a position to be a leader doesn't necessarily make you a leader. More so it's an invitation to start developing better skills or qualities or character traits becoming of a leader. And I kind of get that sense reading this. You know you just because you're the department manager, or maybe you're even the general man, or maybe you own the dealership or you own the business. To discover that you're you're probably not as influential as you think you are. For me is kind of a defining line of what it means to be a leader. Curious, though, what your take on that is. So agree that that ties exactly it to me. It doesn't matter what your title is, how many years you've had in that industry, doesn't mean that you're influential. And I am, or can prove that based on we do a lot of mentoring with leaders,... anyone that's in the C suite, and a lot of times when I sit down one on one with these leaders, I hit someone that too long ago. Question me by asking it, but you wonder however became a leader, and that comment was after we were watching as video playback. A lot of leaders will say to me, here's what's happening in my career. It gets lonely at the top. I'm not getting the feedback that truly tells me how to grow. Instead of the feedback is always sounding like good, nice work and I job. It's great, unless you've got an executive team that's really giving you feedback. It gets a little lonely. So that would be the first place I would start. When your prior question, Michael, is where do you start? I'd be asking for constructive feedback. Good, nice job. That's not feedback. HMM, to really ask what did I do? What did I say? Were you gain the greatest value? Was One thing I can do to have more impact. Now how you can set that up for more success, especially a leader, because it does get lonely at the top. People start telling you what they think you want to hear. Always prepare for the feedback. If we would have done that, Michael, before today's interview, prior to US recording the call, we would got on the call and I would have said to you, okay, my goal, here's what I'm working on. Be Very specific with you and what I want you to listen for, and then afterwards, would you give me feedback? No, if it is in a conversation, say we're just one on one and you can give me feedback in the moment, called Interactive coaching. That's always the best way to go. So that would be step number one. Now, sometimes, especially in a leadership roll, if you're still feeling like are they really telling me the truth, and sometimes the truth may be with family and friends. They may be more honest with you than your coworkers, depending on the position you have at the company. Sure, I go back to the audio and video. I think as a leader, I strongly believe as a leader, you owe it to yourself and the people that you are trying to lead, the people you want following you. You owe it to yourself to rebe recording yourself on a regular basis. We do it as a team. Once a month, my team is required to record themselves. They send me the recordings and we critique each other now a we're doing it because we know it's the power of development be we're doing it because we tell everyone else to do it. We better be practicing what we're preaching. I would say those would be the top two. What I love about this, and especially as it ties into this concept of Monday to Monday, like what comes to my mind? Be The leader you were meant to be. Monday to Monday. What comes to my mind is actually one of one of my company's core values, which is striving for excellence and that excellence isn't something that goes on the shelf. When you go home at night. In other words, you know, not to take this out of the corporate world so abruptly, but I kind of think of, like you know, in my home, what kind of a leader Am I, and R ying into the consistency,... my children, who, you know, who I'm a parent of, like, what kind of a leader Am I and how? And also as an executive team member on my wife's team. What kind of an executive team are we and how do we counsel with one another and are our actions consistent? So this whole concept of what you've said, and then this Monday to Monday, like immediately my brain went to how could I ever be a good leader in my business if I am not a good leader in my home? I so agree with that, and that goes back to the consistency of it. I give an example in the book might go. We may all be able to identify with this if you've ever been into a restaurant and you've got a family with young kids seeing next to you and maybe they're not very well behaved, but the minute the mother or the Father Get up to perhaps go use the restroom or just walk away, suddenly the kids are angels. I mean I can go on and on. I've been in situations where that may have just happened last night to us, by the way. Or do you know someone, let's take on the professional side, where you know them in the boardroom and they're polished, they seem like someone you can trust and connect with, and then you have to go out to lunch with them and you observe how they treat the wait staff and it completely changes your perspective of who they really are. Yeah, AH, interesting. Well, it almost goes back to what you said about the phone call, like getting a text message or an email versus listening to them on the phone and they and all of a sudden your paradigm of that individual changes almost instantaneously. Yeah, the more consistent we are, Michael, the more we eliminate doubt in our listeners mind. When listeners start doubting, I think we really start messing with the level of trust people have around us. Is So, I guess, as I as I maybe read into it, consistency is one is maybe the differentiator, or one of certain differentiators where where it's kind of the telltale of this person is legit or this person is as a fake. I agree, I agree with that. And now that we have so many ways to communicate, so many different mediums, there's so much noise that's out there, meaning we are receiving messages. Seven are those reasons, and I guess I'm throwing out the question. Those maybe all reasons why communicating with influence Monday to Monday is that much more difficult? MMM, how does this all tie in? Because, I mean, we talked about the C suite, we talked about, you know, top level leadership, the importance of all of this as it pertains to a business, for the executive teams to all be on the same page,... be practicing, to be consistent. Does all of the responsibility fall on them? And where I'm going with this is, you know, we hear a lot. I mean in the United States alone there's let's call it, half a million car sales professionals and then other support staff, Admin team members, financing all those sorts of things. And often, is the case, we see in the forums online, on facebook, all over the place. Well, I'd like to do that, but my leader Xyz, you know Z. or if only my leader could X Y Z, then that you know. How much of it, how much of this actually is on the leader versus. I guess where I'm going. Being a leader of one like taking with doing something with what's in your control as an individual to create a culture of one, being the leader of yourself and conducting yourself with dignity and and composure and consistency and all those sorts of things to make success happen for yourself. That's what this is all about, right. I mean if we and I hear it when I go into corporations, if I'm not working with the top leaders, I will hear their team say to me, when my leader doesn't do it that way or way to cut. My leader doesn't allow me to do that, and I stop it the minute that starts and really say to them, here's the deal. Your name is on everything you do, not your leaders name. MMM, good news. You get to decide how people perceive you. You get to decide the reputation you want others to have a few just by how you show up, how you stay showed up and what you leave behind. And I like what you said. It's really about being a leader of one, because if we all waited around for everyone else to guide us and help us be better communicators, you'd be waiting a long time. You've got to just take do the work and take the action on yourself. Sure, are there certain things that I think others in a company may prevent you from being able to do, but what we're talking about is all individualized, it's all muscle memory. It all really lays on the shoulders of each of us individually. It's it is subconscious competence. Is that? Is that the right yes, yes, it's going from a place where you realized you you were subconsciously incompetent, you didn't know what you didn't know, and getting yourself to a place where if I threw book at your face, you would just automatically catch it because of the muscle memory knows that book on face equals pain. You know, it's super interesting concept. So you start that by feedback. Is that? Is that understanding? So you start by by genuinely wanting feedback. Now, I mean like a lot of us get feedback. How do how do we shift our mindset though? where? Because I mean, like the reality of it is, especially this day and age and the digital age, businesses have more abundant access to getting reviews and feedback, all these sorts of things. But what I find so often... that individuals go, Oh, well, yeah, but they that's not all the content, you know, like everybody just gets very defensive. How do we eliminate that from our our our being like, Oh, you know what, like I just need to take this feedback for what it is and take what I can learn from it and and and improve myself, versus what our reaction typically is, which is like well, they were stupid, you know, and we all fall there. First, you got even recognize that you're closed to feedback. That's that's number one. Second, you have to realize that no matter who you are, everyone can improve. That that's just that's bottom line, and I've got some individuals in my life that I've tried to coach to our absolutely oblivious to that concept. And then it's really knowing that when you do receive feedback, you don't have to accept all of it. That's the beauty of it. You get to choose what you want to act upon and what you just want to leave on the side. I always say you take the best and you leave the rest. HMM. It's challenge, though, if you're never open to it, what is the worst thing that can happen if you at least consider the feedback that you're getting getting, especially Michael, if it's consistent. Sure, if you continuously hear you just that this person doesn't listen. You don't listen, you don't listen, you don't listen, and you're getting it in your personal life and your professional life. That might be telling you something. I always give my participants a hard time who will share with me that they're significant. Others give them the exact same feedback and I'll grin at them and I'll say here's the deal. They live with you, so they know your natural self. They know what works what doesn't work for you. They're probably right. And then I had someone the other day, Michael, say to me, let me get this straight, my wife's been telling me exactly what you're telling me and I'm paying you to tell me this. I say, yes, you are. Yeah, you're paying me for common sense. Yes, that this is the reality of what's happening. That's right. And then if you still are in denial, Michael, you still don't want to hear the feedback, I go back to the video and audio taping. Then just ask you know, learn for yourself. Take a look, see if what people are saying around you is right on target. It just it it kills me because I mean and we're headed into a new year. I mean at time of recording this where November, two thousand and eighteen. We're headed into a new year. So we know what's going to happen. Two Thousand and nineteen is going to hit. Everyone's gonna go says, gotta be my best year ever. I kept Ay has got these all right, and then November is going to hit. There gonna be like man, this, you're soaked. I can't believe what happened. Worth the year go? Man, I I can't believe how many times I woke up on that side of the bed. Blah, blah, blah, point me in. You know, I love what you're saying, which is hey, hey, pal, you know maybe, just maybe, you need to start listening to the feedback and you need to start taking action on the things that people are saying. I've always felt that way like, and you...

...know, a real practical I think example of this is, as we look at improving business, how many times customers have said, you know, it really smelt weird in there, or man, the weight time was kind of long, or you know and we just brush those things off because we don't think that anything we could do could have any major tangible impact on business. But yeah, you know, to your point, how long have people been saying like go to your Google reviews and see how often people have said the exact same things over and over and over again, like that salesperson was mean, or this, this person rubbed us the wrong way and like this person got too close for comfort, or you know, like there's all these things that we hear consistently that we do nothing with. And what I'm picking up, he say, I'm Stacy, I'm picking up what you're putting down here. I'm picking it. I those who listen to the show. No, I take pages and pages of notes because I love, you know, I love the information. But what I'm picking up here is hey want a better life than change. Yes, yes, I would see it. Had someone the other day, well, maybe in that the other day, a couple of months ago. We're really big time pushed back and I find that when you don't like the feedback or you don't like to see what you're seeing on a video play back, there are some individuals that go to this place at denial and it's all excuses for why they see what they see, which is crazy because the video doesn't lie. And I simply came down to the comment of if what you're doing right now is working, keep doing it and if it's not, well then at least be open to trying something new. It's a SIMP when you put it in those terms. The recipe seems so simple. It does, it does, but it is. It's hard watching your playbacks, it's hard getting your feedback. But here's the deal. Don't keep falling the same way all the time. Sure, don't keep stepping on the same land mine where you continuously hear this comment how they are really a mean salesperson. Make the change and then you'll probably get some more feedback down the road, as long as you're learning from what you're taking. But yeah, big flake, if you continuously get the same feedback, there's something going on there. I don't know why this comes to my mind, but it does. But I almost feel like this this all starts from a place of a desire, like if you at least have a desire to improve the situation, then then this works. But if you have no destination or you don't know which direction you're going to go and like it reminds me of the Cheshire Cat in Alice in Wonderland. Alice's Alice is just arrived and she hits a fork in the road and the cat are appears in the tree and he says, and she says, can you help me find where I'm going? And he says, well, which direction do you want to go? And she goes. I guess, I don't know, and he says, well then, I guess any path will take you there. Yeah, and we're stuck in...

...this like weird cycle of you know what? What we're talking about is, if you want it to be different, than change, like if your clothes were dirty, the simple answer is, change your clothes. If your life you feel like sucks or could be better than change your life, like change the things in your life. And and if you're a leader and you're wondering how things could be better, maybe maybe start taking inventory on how much influence or how little influence you actually have with your with your people. Yeah, but I think you made a really good point earlier. My go sometimes it starts at home. It while yes, and we see this all the time. It's shocking this day and age we see people on the on the cinema screen, the silver screen, and we go there're such cool people, and then we hear about them getting divorced and their kids hate them in this and that unhappiness, and we go, how could that be? They seem like such nice people. Yeah, yeah, and that is because you look at just this year alone, some of the tragedies that have happened by people that we most of us know who they are and we've seen their names for a long time, and suddenly, you know, I fell on that same spot, to where you just feel like, wait a second, they look like they had everything, and that's the just the misperception. Now I'm that case is the flip side, right. We see them as all they've got everything together and they live this life of luxury. Wow, that's what you call inconsistent behaviors. Does this cause, I mean, in your experience, in your observation it? Does this concept of comparing get in the way, like, I mean, is there such thing as healthy comparison? I think there is, as on as you're comparing yourself to someone that has it together, right. So you said John C Maxwell. Yeah, well, watch what he does. What is his success and anything that you read. I follow a lot of his writings. He talks about his failures, but here's the deal. He doesn't sit in them interest r analyzes them and moves forward like that. That be someone like that, but that someone like that that you can learn from. It's the ones with the the negative behavior, the ones that give an example. Maybe they're in meetings and they tend to interrupt a lot, maybe they always take control of the meeting. They don't allow anyone to interact or connect and engage with them. Well, those are probably the people you don't want to follow. I think you can learn from both of them. Watch individuals who truly have created this reputation of trust, disability to connect and engage with others, his ability to to build the perception of confidence from others and have impact. Watch what they're doing, meaning body language, watch how it's consistent with their messaging and then copy it. Make it your own, but follow it. Now, everything opposite of that. Don't copy..., and usually in life we copy what's not healthy for us or we copy what we don't like. Yeah, we don't know as we're doing it. You know it, and this for me just kind of comes full circle. I play guitar and I play piano. If those instruments, if those instruments, did not produce sound back to me, ie feedback, I would never know how well I was playing those instruments. It makes me think of how each of us individually is an instrument and without feedback, without the desire to be better and without feedback, we will have no gage on how well we are progressing exactly. I'm Michael Sirillo and you've been listening to the dealer playbook podcast. If you haven't yet, please click the subscribe button wherever you're listening right now, leave a rating or review and share it with a colleague. Thanks for listening.

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